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	<title>Comments on: How In God&#8217;s Name Is This Happening?</title>
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	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
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		<title>By: Semanticleo</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7062</link>
		<dc:creator>Semanticleo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2005 05:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7062</guid>
		<description>Frank;

Your assumption that marxism infects the notion , &quot;from each according to his ability.....&quot; is  to condemn the idea without a trial.

In the first place, that expression connotes a willingness on the part of all participants not just in the FREEDOM to act, but the RESPONSIBILITY to act or not act,  as appropriate. (You must love one another, as you love yourself&quot;)

What has been missing from the American experiment in freedom is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  When one chooses to exercise freedom only with respect to oneself, without regard to how it affects others; it is not freedom.  It is tyranny.  You and I make that choice on a daily basis.  Voluntarily subscribing to a life of mutually assured benefits for all lifts each one and exalts none.  The question of how you deal with laggards who lack any selfsame spirit is another matter.  You may choose to focus on them if you wish as an answer to this.  Or you may wish to address the bigger picture; personal development.

That&#039;s enough of that for now.  More later. If you wish.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank;</p>
<p>Your assumption that marxism infects the notion , &#8220;from each according to his ability&#8230;..&#8221; is  to condemn the idea without a trial.</p>
<p>In the first place, that expression connotes a willingness on the part of all participants not just in the FREEDOM to act, but the RESPONSIBILITY to act or not act,  as appropriate. (You must love one another, as you love yourself&#8221;)</p>
<p>What has been missing from the American experiment in freedom is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  When one chooses to exercise freedom only with respect to oneself, without regard to how it affects others; it is not freedom.  It is tyranny.  You and I make that choice on a daily basis.  Voluntarily subscribing to a life of mutually assured benefits for all lifts each one and exalts none.  The question of how you deal with laggards who lack any selfsame spirit is another matter.  You may choose to focus on them if you wish as an answer to this.  Or you may wish to address the bigger picture; personal development.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s enough of that for now.  More later. If you wish.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank_D</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7061</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank_D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7061</guid>
		<description>Ihave answered many questions as directly as possible, not necessarily by you. and I have still been accused of bobbing and weaving. I can&#039;t help that.

As far your question goes, let&#039;s take the saying apart:

1) From each according to his ability.  What about the person&#039;s willingness; what about choice?
If I am able to sing, &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; I be a singer? Can&#039;t I be a playwright?
If I am able to drive a truck, must I drive a truck? Leon Uris write Exodus while he was a truck driver. What if he had lived in a society where he was compelled to be a truck driver? We have no Exodus, No Mila 18, No Trinity, no QB VII.

2) To each according his needs. Where do I begin? Who determines need? Who determines what is required to satisfy that need? You? Me? A committee?

What do you know about the early Christian congregation? Something written by some liberation theologian? Do you find it interesting that no one made comparisons between Communism / Marxism and early Christian living until the 1960&#039;s? It would have been a very useful comparison in the 1850&#039;s, wouldn&#039;t it? Why didn&#039;t they know about iT?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ihave answered many questions as directly as possible, not necessarily by you. and I have still been accused of bobbing and weaving. I can&#8217;t help that.</p>
<p>As far your question goes, let&#8217;s take the saying apart:</p>
<p>1) From each according to his ability.  What about the person&#8217;s willingness; what about choice?<br />
If I am able to sing, <i>must</i> I be a singer? Can&#8217;t I be a playwright?<br />
If I am able to drive a truck, must I drive a truck? Leon Uris write Exodus while he was a truck driver. What if he had lived in a society where he was compelled to be a truck driver? We have no Exodus, No Mila 18, No Trinity, no QB VII.</p>
<p>2) To each according his needs. Where do I begin? Who determines need? Who determines what is required to satisfy that need? You? Me? A committee?</p>
<p>What do you know about the early Christian congregation? Something written by some liberation theologian? Do you find it interesting that no one made comparisons between Communism / Marxism and early Christian living until the 1960&#8217;s? It would have been a very useful comparison in the 1850&#8217;s, wouldn&#8217;t it? Why didn&#8217;t they know about iT?</p>
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		<title>By: Semanticleo</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7060</link>
		<dc:creator>Semanticleo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7060</guid>
		<description>Frank;

From me.

Just because I so love an argument.

Dodging the discussion. I asked you for some basis for your pejorative use of the phrase.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need,

What is wrong with the concept? I do not associate the idea with Marxism, I associate the concept with that of the early Christian Congregation. It seems you have a rather narrow view of ideas in general. I am not a marxist any more than you are a nazi. I have a spectre of Socialism in my bag of ideas because I am not afraid of names. I do not like to be cubby-holed as a this, or a that. I, like my genetic gene pool, am a combination of disciplines and dogmas that changes as I learn. How do you learn? I hope one of the reasons you visit this site is to learn about the other point of view. That is why I visit Powerline. Little Green Footballs and such. Is that why you are here Frank?

Just once I would like to hear a direct answer to a direct question without all the bobbing and weaving.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank;</p>
<p>From me.</p>
<p>Just because I so love an argument.</p>
<p>Dodging the discussion. I asked you for some basis for your pejorative use of the phrase.</p>
<p>From each according to his ability, to each according to his need,</p>
<p>What is wrong with the concept? I do not associate the idea with Marxism, I associate the concept with that of the early Christian Congregation. It seems you have a rather narrow view of ideas in general. I am not a marxist any more than you are a nazi. I have a spectre of Socialism in my bag of ideas because I am not afraid of names. I do not like to be cubby-holed as a this, or a that. I, like my genetic gene pool, am a combination of disciplines and dogmas that changes as I learn. How do you learn? I hope one of the reasons you visit this site is to learn about the other point of view. That is why I visit Powerline. Little Green Footballs and such. Is that why you are here Frank?</p>
<p>Just once I would like to hear a direct answer to a direct question without all the bobbing and weaving.</p>
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		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7059</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7059</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The cost of  peace in our time  was the bloodiest war in world history. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The cost of peace is war?

Awfully close to plagiarism, don&#039;t you think?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The cost of  peace in our time  was the bloodiest war in world history. </p></blockquote>
<p>The cost of peace is war?</p>
<p>Awfully close to plagiarism, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Semanticleo</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7058</link>
		<dc:creator>Semanticleo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7058</guid>
		<description>hank God those brave men and women were mature than the likes of you, wilbur, leo and Oliver

Frank;

I thank God every day for those who volunteer for &quot;The Charge of the Light Brigade&quot; but have the maturity to call on such character only when necessary.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hank God those brave men and women were mature than the likes of you, wilbur, leo and Oliver</p>
<p>Frank;</p>
<p>I thank God every day for those who volunteer for &#8220;The Charge of the Light Brigade&#8221; but have the maturity to call on such character only when necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: goatchowder</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7057</link>
		<dc:creator>goatchowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7057</guid>
		<description>I gotta give props to Nudnik for his handle. I thought you guys were insulting him until I caught on.. oh, that&#039;s his *name*.

We should get some wingnut to post here under the handle &quot;Asshole&quot;. So we can have fun making statements like, &quot;What you&#039;re saying, Asshole, is that war is justified just because we feel like it...&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta give props to Nudnik for his handle. I thought you guys were insulting him until I caught on.. oh, that&#8217;s his *name*.</p>
<p>We should get some wingnut to post here under the handle &#8220;Asshole&#8221;. So we can have fun making statements like, &#8220;What you&#8217;re saying, Asshole, is that war is justified just because we feel like it&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: mr.curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7056</link>
		<dc:creator>mr.curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7056</guid>
		<description>I wish the &quot;cost&quot; of supporting a war, was, you know, having to actually FIGHT IN IT.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish the &#8220;cost&#8221; of supporting a war, was, you know, having to actually FIGHT IN IT.</p>
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		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7055</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7055</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Peace, like war, has costs. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Really? And what might be the &quot;cost&quot; of peace?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Peace, like war, has costs. </p></blockquote>
<p>Really? And what might be the &#8220;cost&#8221; of peace?</p>
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		<title>By: TomY</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7054</link>
		<dc:creator>TomY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7054</guid>
		<description>Nudnik wrote: No one said  immediate threat

In fact, officials at all levels of the administration tied Saddam&#039;s non-existent WMD programs directly to the threat he posed, and hyped it as the most important reason above all others.

Sadly, it seems your non-MSM right wing sources have lied to you, Nud. But worse, the Adminstration has lied to all of us.

&quot;No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.&quot;
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld before the House Armed Services Committee, 9/19/02

&quot;Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent - that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons.&quot;
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02

&quot;This is about imminent threat.&quot;
White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 2/10/03

&quot;This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined.&quot;
President Bush, 9/26/02
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nudnik wrote: No one said  immediate threat</p>
<p>In fact, officials at all levels of the administration tied Saddam&#8217;s non-existent WMD programs directly to the threat he posed, and hyped it as the most important reason above all others.</p>
<p>Sadly, it seems your non-MSM right wing sources have lied to you, Nud. But worse, the Adminstration has lied to all of us.</p>
<p>&#8220;No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.&#8221;<br />
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld before the House Armed Services Committee, 9/19/02</p>
<p>&#8220;Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent &#8211; that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons.&#8221;<br />
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02</p>
<p>&#8220;This is about imminent threat.&#8221;<br />
White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 2/10/03</p>
<p>&#8220;This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined.&#8221;<br />
President Bush, 9/26/02</p>
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		<title>By: nudnik</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7053</link>
		<dc:creator>nudnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7053</guid>
		<description>The cost of &quot;peace in our time&quot; was the bloodiest war in world history.  Just one example.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cost of &#8220;peace in our time&#8221; was the bloodiest war in world history.  Just one example.</p>
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		<title>By: nudnik</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7052</link>
		<dc:creator>nudnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7052</guid>
		<description>Iraq was a &quot;grave and gathering&quot; threat for the reasons I described, ie the inevitable removal of sanctions.  (No one said &quot;immediate threat&quot;)

Since 1998 there was a Congressional resolution calling for the removal of Saddam.  And after the demonstration of Islamofascism on 9/11, it certainly would have cut it as a threat to the US.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iraq was a &#8220;grave and gathering&#8221; threat for the reasons I described, ie the inevitable removal of sanctions.  (No one said &#8220;immediate threat&#8221;)</p>
<p>Since 1998 there was a Congressional resolution calling for the removal of Saddam.  And after the demonstration of Islamofascism on 9/11, it certainly would have cut it as a threat to the US.</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7051</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7051</guid>
		<description>Nudnik,

You say that IRaqis were not living under the Islamofascist ideology so what did invading Iraq have to do with 9-11? After we invaded, why was there no evidence of Iraqi WMDs, or any evidence of active programs?  How is Iraq different from North Korea or Iran? How exactly can spreading democracy be the primary reason for invading Iraq and yet not be reason enough? Why is Islam and Sharia law a significant part of Iraq&#039;s new constitution if its people are so welcoming of democracy? Or to put it another way, why are Iraqi women facing less rights under the new government then they had under Hussein? Why are vast swaths of Afghanistan still largely under the control of local warlords?
Oh, and, I&#039;m not surprised that corruption exists but I am angry about it. Why aren&#039;t you?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nudnik,</p>
<p>You say that IRaqis were not living under the Islamofascist ideology so what did invading Iraq have to do with 9-11? After we invaded, why was there no evidence of Iraqi WMDs, or any evidence of active programs?  How is Iraq different from North Korea or Iran? How exactly can spreading democracy be the primary reason for invading Iraq and yet not be reason enough? Why is Islam and Sharia law a significant part of Iraq&#8217;s new constitution if its people are so welcoming of democracy? Or to put it another way, why are Iraqi women facing less rights under the new government then they had under Hussein? Why are vast swaths of Afghanistan still largely under the control of local warlords?<br />
Oh, and, I&#8217;m not surprised that corruption exists but I am angry about it. Why aren&#8217;t you?</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7050</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7050</guid>
		<description> grave and gathering

and yet clearly it wasn&#039;t. It certainly wasn&#039;t a threat to the US in any way shape or form.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> grave and gathering</p>
<p>and yet clearly it wasn&#8217;t. It certainly wasn&#8217;t a threat to the US in any way shape or form.</p>
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		<title>By: TomY</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7049</link>
		<dc:creator>TomY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7049</guid>
		<description>&quot;the intelligence that you speak of (WMD) was never the primary reason for the war... the primary reason was.. Islamofacism.&quot;

Who the hell knows what you mean by this, Nud, but when most people refer to a &quot;reason&quot; for war, they&#039;re talking about the motivation among the public and the publicly stated reasons. Without WMD, though, and the repeated assertion that Iraq was a &quot;grave and gathering&quot; and &quot;immediate threat,&quot; there never could have been the public support or the Congressional resolution for war. Islamofacism, as a threat, would simply never have cut it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the intelligence that you speak of (WMD) was never the primary reason for the war&#8230; the primary reason was.. Islamofacism.&#8221;</p>
<p>Who the hell knows what you mean by this, Nud, but when most people refer to a &#8220;reason&#8221; for war, they&#8217;re talking about the motivation among the public and the publicly stated reasons. Without WMD, though, and the repeated assertion that Iraq was a &#8220;grave and gathering&#8221; and &#8220;immediate threat,&#8221; there never could have been the public support or the Congressional resolution for war. Islamofacism, as a threat, would simply never have cut it.</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7048</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7048</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d also like to point out that in the case of WWII the dismantling of the ideologies of fascism and Japanese imperialism happened AFTER the war. We won the war not because we &quot;destroyed the ideologies of fascism&quot; we won the war by killing or capturing everyone we could who was willing to fight for fascism. We were able to do that because they all happened to be wearing the same uniforms and generally living in the same geographic regions. Radical islam and/or Islamofascism and the tactics of its supporters are a totally different ball game. And yet Bush insists on fighitng this &quot;new war&quot; the old fashioned way by invading nation states. So far the only ideology we&#039;ve &quot;dismantled&quot; is Baathism but then again, there are still a lot of Baathists in Iraq who are fighitng what they see as an occupation. So we haven&#039;t even accomplished that four years after the start of the war. Not to mention the fact that Iraq is now splitting along religious and ethnic lines that are centuries old. Are we going to finally settle the ancient differences between the Sunnis and Shiites?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d also like to point out that in the case of WWII the dismantling of the ideologies of fascism and Japanese imperialism happened AFTER the war. We won the war not because we &#8220;destroyed the ideologies of fascism&#8221; we won the war by killing or capturing everyone we could who was willing to fight for fascism. We were able to do that because they all happened to be wearing the same uniforms and generally living in the same geographic regions. Radical islam and/or Islamofascism and the tactics of its supporters are a totally different ball game. And yet Bush insists on fighitng this &#8220;new war&#8221; the old fashioned way by invading nation states. So far the only ideology we&#8217;ve &#8220;dismantled&#8221; is Baathism but then again, there are still a lot of Baathists in Iraq who are fighitng what they see as an occupation. So we haven&#8217;t even accomplished that four years after the start of the war. Not to mention the fact that Iraq is now splitting along religious and ethnic lines that are centuries old. Are we going to finally settle the ancient differences between the Sunnis and Shiites?</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7047</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7047</guid>
		<description>&quot;But if you get rid of the brutal dictators, people will choose democracy.&quot;

Again, history reveals plenty of evidence that reality is not so simple. People do not always automatically choose democracy over dictatorship. You site WWI so you should be aware of what happened to the Weimar Republic. A significant number of Germans resented their new democracy, blamed it for the Treaty of Versaille and eventually elected, literally, to return to a non-democratic form of government.

Beyond that, if WMD was not the primary reason for invading Iraq and imposing democracy was not the agenda, what pray tell, are we doing in Iraq? Because Hussein may have one day restarted his weapons programs? Lifting sanctions did not mean lifting restrictions and inspections of Hussein&#039;s weapons programs. You may slight the IAEA&#039;s handling of Iran but the fact of the matter is that thanks to inspections and restrictions Iraq had no WMDs of any kind over a decade after the first gulf war.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But if you get rid of the brutal dictators, people will choose democracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, history reveals plenty of evidence that reality is not so simple. People do not always automatically choose democracy over dictatorship. You site WWI so you should be aware of what happened to the Weimar Republic. A significant number of Germans resented their new democracy, blamed it for the Treaty of Versaille and eventually elected, literally, to return to a non-democratic form of government.</p>
<p>Beyond that, if WMD was not the primary reason for invading Iraq and imposing democracy was not the agenda, what pray tell, are we doing in Iraq? Because Hussein may have one day restarted his weapons programs? Lifting sanctions did not mean lifting restrictions and inspections of Hussein&#8217;s weapons programs. You may slight the IAEA&#8217;s handling of Iran but the fact of the matter is that thanks to inspections and restrictions Iraq had no WMDs of any kind over a decade after the first gulf war.</p>
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		<title>By: nudnik</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7046</link>
		<dc:creator>nudnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7046</guid>
		<description>quaker, very often there are no other alternatives.  Peace, like war, has costs.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quaker, very often there are no other alternatives.  Peace, like war, has costs.</p>
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		<title>By: nudnik</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7044</link>
		<dc:creator>nudnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7044</guid>
		<description>frameone,  Looking back at history of Germany (and Japan) should also tell you that democracy can be imposed.  It required the destruction of the ideology of fascism.  Same thing here, except that for the most part Iraqis are not under the Islamofascist ideology and are ready to give democracy a chance.

The primary reason for attacking Iraq was that after 9/11 we realized that we can not live with Islamofascism.  The goal is to transform the entire Middle East.  Iraq was merely a good place to start due to ready-made causes for war.

&lt;i&gt;You may slight the IAEA s handling of Iran but the fact of the matter is that thanks to inspections and restrictions Iraq had no WMDs of any kind over a decade after the first gulf war.&lt;/i&gt;

That is completely untrue.  Even after the Gulf War Iraq continued its weapons and nuke development.  In fact, Saddam&#039;s son-in-law who fled to Jordan exposed a large part of the WMD program that was concealed from the UN inspectors.  Iraq was very good at cheating and hiding its programs.  The IAEA and weapons-control treaties are only good if signatories obey them.  If they choose not to obey them, then no amount of inspections or monitoring will be able to stop proliferation.

And I am not saying that corruption should not be challenged, merely that we shouldnt be surprised that it exists - especially in large scale projects.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>frameone,  Looking back at history of Germany (and Japan) should also tell you that democracy can be imposed.  It required the destruction of the ideology of fascism.  Same thing here, except that for the most part Iraqis are not under the Islamofascist ideology and are ready to give democracy a chance.</p>
<p>The primary reason for attacking Iraq was that after 9/11 we realized that we can not live with Islamofascism.  The goal is to transform the entire Middle East.  Iraq was merely a good place to start due to ready-made causes for war.</p>
<p><i>You may slight the IAEA s handling of Iran but the fact of the matter is that thanks to inspections and restrictions Iraq had no WMDs of any kind over a decade after the first gulf war.</i></p>
<p>That is completely untrue.  Even after the Gulf War Iraq continued its weapons and nuke development.  In fact, Saddam&#8217;s son-in-law who fled to Jordan exposed a large part of the WMD program that was concealed from the UN inspectors.  Iraq was very good at cheating and hiding its programs.  The IAEA and weapons-control treaties are only good if signatories obey them.  If they choose not to obey them, then no amount of inspections or monitoring will be able to stop proliferation.</p>
<p>And I am not saying that corruption should not be challenged, merely that we shouldnt be surprised that it exists &#8211; especially in large scale projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7045</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7045</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Anyone who has some knowledge of military knows that  well-planned wars  do not exist. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Correct, nudnik. That&#039;s why it&#039;s a bad idea to fight them when there are other alternatives.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Anyone who has some knowledge of military knows that  well-planned wars  do not exist. </p></blockquote>
<p>Correct, nudnik. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s a bad idea to fight them when there are other alternatives.</p>
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		<title>By: frameone</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/09/21/how-in-gods-name-is-this-happening/#comment-7043</link>
		<dc:creator>frameone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:09:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=568#comment-7043</guid>
		<description>I should also add that the administration&#039;s aim of imposing democracy by force in the Middle East, was seriously flawed and dubious to begin with. Which is not to say that Iraqis don&#039;t deserve freedom or democracy, or that they aren&#039;t &quot;ready&quot; for it either, but rather that quite, frankly, you can&#039;t make someone choose democracy. They have to choose it for themselves. And yet, inspite the empty rhetoric of the Bush administration, history has shown time and time again that people don&#039;t always choose democracy when it is presented to them as a choice. Take the fate of the Weimar Republic as one recent example. Which to say that given the complexity of what the administration wanted to achieve, they did not put a hell of a lot of thought into how they were going to achieve it beyond military force. This isn&#039;t simply poor planning, it&#039;s a total lack of planning.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also add that the administration&#8217;s aim of imposing democracy by force in the Middle East, was seriously flawed and dubious to begin with. Which is not to say that Iraqis don&#8217;t deserve freedom or democracy, or that they aren&#8217;t &#8220;ready&#8221; for it either, but rather that quite, frankly, you can&#8217;t make someone choose democracy. They have to choose it for themselves. And yet, inspite the empty rhetoric of the Bush administration, history has shown time and time again that people don&#8217;t always choose democracy when it is presented to them as a choice. Take the fate of the Weimar Republic as one recent example. Which to say that given the complexity of what the administration wanted to achieve, they did not put a hell of a lot of thought into how they were going to achieve it beyond military force. This isn&#8217;t simply poor planning, it&#8217;s a total lack of planning.</p>
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