Dugger

In this sentence

It s about whether or not Ms. Malkin has some sort of responsibility to keep what she perceives as history a secret because she is Asian, and the people she is writing about were of Asian descent.

the words in bold represent the secret you think she should keep. Now, we can take off the clown hat and oversized shoes.

I would say that your use of a term like “race traitorship” indicates that you don’t know what it means, either.

You can’t grasp the concept of race traitorship, fine, just leave it at that. The rest of the world does, and we are perfectly capable of carrying on a conversation without you.

I have two questions: 1) Was her investigation valid? Did she indeed collect sufficient information to make a case that some Japanese Americans may have been dangeous enough to inter, even if wholesale interment was excessive?
2) If she didn’t do that, what did she do? Did she deliberately make a case for interment, when it was not justified?

If she didn’t do 1), and she did do 2), then: Why?

That’s why I think “race traitor” is such a stupid term. Because I’m not sure how you “become” one. SadieB, your example of the Jews in Germany isn’t valid, either, because you’ve said nothing of their motives.

“Traitor” is the noun, “race” is the adjective. The general grammatical convention is that the noun is more important, that’s why I called it “operative.” Remember in junior high when you used to diagram sentences, how the noun went on the line and the modifiers went below? Or maybe kids don’t do that anymore, maybe I am showing my age.

Frank, help me out here. These young kids don’t know their grammar.

Okay, let me try one more thing to help you get this. Imagine in Nazi Germany there are some Jews who work for the Nazis, giving them information on which families in their town are Jewish. Maybe they even help draw up list of who should go first. What would you call those people?

So when you said:

 Race traitor. The operative word here is traitor  one who betrays.

You really meant:

“the operative wordS here are ‘race’ and ‘traitor’ “?

I think you are winning your first debate here – the one with yourself.

Dugger

Actually, perhaps you are not aware that Germans (”By the end of the war, 11,000 persons of German ancestry, including many American-born children, were interned”) and Italians were interned. That would seem to deflate the the racial angle somewhat, nicht wahr?

Dugger

“the policy was justified based on the intelligence at the time, not because she personally dislikes Japanese or Japanese Americans”

Okay here’s the crux. It doesn’t matter how she feels. Love the Japanese, hate ‘em, it doesn’t matter. It’s the internment that matters, and the fact that she claims it was the right thing to do. It’s the things we do that matter.

It’s no mystery why Oliver hates Malkin, it’s the same reason every sane person who has not been possessed by a Republican body-snatchin’ alien hates her — because she’s terrible! She is a terrible person!

The reason I asked you about human nature was because you seem to think this kind of stuff, making excuses for internment camps and such, is just harmless fun among friends. My point was that it isn’t, because we are just as capable of barbarism as the Nazis were, and your 6,000 year old people. We have to be vigilant about ourselves.

And don’t tell me about objective reality — liberals don’t even believe in it.

Ms. Malkin argues that the policy was justified based on the intelligence at the time, not because she personally dislikes Japanese or Japanese Americans. If you have any evidence that she dislikes Japanese Americans, now would be a good time for people like you and Oliver to present it, or stop making such baseless charges.

I honestly think that human nature is now different than it was 6,000 years ago, when the earliest “civilizations” spent such an inordinate amount of time hacking each other to pieces. So what does that with the price of tea in China?

The issue originally was someone’s contention that one piece of paper suddenly makes Ms. Malkin a liar. Not mistaken, mind you, but a liar.
The real issue is that Oliver really hates Ms.Malkin. I don’t know why, but I know he does. I also know she believes what she writes about, and is not race conscious. That’s what I do know.

Malkin is an apologist for this policy. She argues that it was justified. That is promotion. It’s people like her who lay the groundwork for these things to happen again, and they can. Do you honestly think human nature is fundamentally different now than it was 60 years ago?

The Japanese-American internment was a permanent black mark on our nation’s history and on Roosevelt’s reputation. He did it under pressure from conservatives. That, and refusing to sign anti-lynching legislation. Politics being what they are, sometimes you have to go along to get along, but it is still shameful. He was ashamed of these actions until the day he died.

So let s go through it again: Is Malkin Asian? yes. Does she promote policies harmful to Asians? yes  the internment of Japanese Americans was very harmful to them. There is no falsehood here, therefore by definition there is no smear.

You’re a real intelectual, eh, SadieB?

Malkin is Filipino, not “Asian”. Japenese Americans are Japanese Americans, not “Asians.” Unless you think they’re all alike.
Malkin never promoted policies harmful to Japanese Americans, as there is no plan to inter Japanese Americans any time soon — is there?

She is presenting her version of history. Her interpretation. She is advocating nothing.

Finally, the earliest book I ever read on the subject was entitled “America’s Concentration Camps” (pretty clear what the point of view was, right?), and even that author conceded that right or wrong, Governor Earl Warren thought the interment was necessary.

Roosevelt’s cronies were credited with saying, when asked why German Americans weren’t interred, “Germans vote Democratic.”

That’s history, not racism — treacherous, or otherwise.

Race is the word that qualifies traitor. In English we call it an adjective. What kind of hat? A blue hat. What kind of traitor? A race traitor.

See how it works?

No, you just keep digging yourself in deeper. Anytime a liberal uses the word “race” conservatives shriek “racist!” and consider that the end of the conversation. Well it isn’t.

We are going to talk about race in this country and keep on talking about it until it isn’t a problem anymore. This will probably take a long time. We don’t need permission from delicate conservatives to do so.

“If you want to continue to feed your obvious infatuation with the woman by defending her, then whatever floats your boat.’

Wow. Can’t argue with that lucid, intellectual dart.

Sadie,

Sometimes its just too easy.

“Race traitor. The operative word here is traitor  one who betrays.”

If the “race” word is inoperative, Sadie, why have you repeatedly used it?? After all, you say of yourself, “I do have common sense, ”

Dugger

I think I understand what’s going on. I think maybe you believe “racism” and “race blind” are opposites. Is that it? So when you call me racist what you are really saying is that I am not being race blind?

I suppose that since she is Asian, actually Phillipina, that she should share common beliefs with all Asians, Japanese Americans, Chinese Americans, Vietnamese Americans, Korean Americans, et al. Is it not possible that maybe different people in this enormous class of people have differing views on different topics?

Okay let me try again because you still don’t get it. I can’t tell if you are a clever man pretending to be dense, or a dense man pretending to be clever, but it’s starting to look more and more like the latter.

Race traitor. The operative word here is traitor — one who betrays. Betrayal being something that you do. Remember the little being versus doing distinction?

A race traitor is someone who takes advantage of his or her race to secure a position of influence, from which he or she either actively promotes, or provides political cover for those who promote, an agenda which harms other people of their race.

So let’s go through it again: Is Malkin Asian? yes. Does she promote policies harmful to Asians? yes — the internment of Japanese Americans was very harmful to them. There is no falsehood here, therefore by definition there is no smear.

Face it, you righties just love that little tingle it gives you in the base of your spine to call a liberal “racist.” You never try to figure out if it makes sense or not, and frankly, it makes you look ignorant.

And no JD, there’s nothing special about me except I do have common sense, which is apparently a rare substance in Wingnuttia since you seem never to have encountered it before.

Sadie – It is nice to know that you have now become the arbiter of what constitutes being a racist, or a race traitor. That must make it a lot easier to live in your world.

She a public figure. It goes with the territory. Some pubic figures like to keep a relatively low profile, she obviously does not. If you write a controversial “book” on race, expect some controversy on race.

IMO…95% of the criticisms Malin has recieved are legitimate. I would not call her a race traitor, however.

I don’t think her book approaches anything close to a scholarly work, and I don’t think she adds anything of serious note to discussion of pubic policy and immigration issues in this country.

If you want to continue to feed your obvious infatuation with the woman by defending her, then whatever floats your boat.

Personally, I don’t spend much time defending all of the crazy things people like Al Sharpton say. But that’s just me.

JK

The smear was and remains the ugly “race traitor” remark. Do yourself a favor and retract it. That kind of racially tinged crap went out some time ago. Disagree with her all you want or me, but leave her and my race and religion out of it. And Sadie, neither you nor Oliver has addressed the point that if Malkin is ashamed of her race, as it was put, why does she prominently display her picture on her site.

JK

So racially based criticism of Malkin is all Ok in your book – because you don’t like Malkin. Because you judge from a thousand miles away and with no credentials that she is sick (I guess its just coincidental that she disagrees with you politically).

Dugger

I simply can not wrap my noodle around the whole idea of caring enough about Michelle Malkin to defend her. You don’t need to be a psychiatrist to notice that there is something seriously wrong with that woman.

How about selling your soul? Just keep those speech and appearance fees coming and she’ll keep batting those crazy eyes around.

JK