Somebody Stop This Man
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Bush threatens “the use of force” against Iran. He claims that it’s the last option. That’s what he said about Iraq, and 1,800 soldiers have died for it. And he smiles and goes to Texas and chops wood.
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Bush threatens the use of force against Iran.
He did no such thing. He was asked what would be done and he said, “All options are on the table.”
That s what he said about Iraq, and 1,800 soldiers have died for it.
Yes and those 1800 deaths have brought freedom for 27 million people from a tyrannical dictator that killed over 300,000 citizens in a span of 30 years. That’s kind of like wiping out the entire city of Tampa.
[...] Liberal Stupidity13 Aug 2005 10:47 am
Like Flypaper To Stupid
First, OW says this: Bush threatens the use of force against Iran. View the video an [...]
Iran will not be as easy as Iraq was. Better send in 3 to 400 thousand troops. Get ready for heavy losses. Syria will be next after Iran. Better bring back the draft now. All people who support the war in Iraq should quit their jobs and join the military now. Are you willng to die for Iraq or Iran. If you are not willing to die then quit bitching about the ones who are against the war. If you are not willing to leave your families, give up your freedom and go die for a bunch of people you don’t know and who are not a threat to us in this country, then quit supporting this ridiculous senseless war.
It is the most dangerous sort of naivete that suggests we have a choice whether or not to deal with an Iran that is bent on developing a nuclear weapons program. While you self-described lovers of peace obssess about the dangers of the cowboy Bush, you ignore the daily threats of annihilation from the mouths of the mad Iranian Mullahs, and their regime.
Read how the Iranians freely admit to gaming the IAEA, in order to buy more time to continue on their path of nuclear ambition:
http://www.memritv.com/Transcript.asp?P1=805
Read Iranian “President-Elect” Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad’s insane speech on the Art of Martyrdom:
http://www.memritv.com/Transcript.asp?P1=782
Only a fool and an idiot look at Iran and Bush, and decide Bush is the problem.
Yes and those 1800 deaths have brought freedom for 27 million people from a tyrannical dictator that killed over 300,000 citizens in a span of 30 years. That s kind of like wiping out the entire city of Tampa.
Yes, and how many Iraqi’s have our efforts killed in the span of two years? Our invasion, and the subsequent insurgency, will have Saddam’s brutal record surpassed in no time. Moreover, where is the freedom? The south of Iraq has been taken over by brutal extremists. Women are in danger of losing their rights (which were some of the best in the Middle East under Saddam) and cannot safely leave their homes. Christians no longer feel safe.
Anyone who supports this war needs to pack a bag and go over there to help our troops.
They have limited electricity and running water. And we have thousands of troops over there performing support roles building roads and schools. At the same time they are surrounded by civilians who are willing to blow themselves up and kill as many troops and other civilians as they can. They do not wear uniforms, so our troops have no idea who will be the next suicide bomber. It can be the person who 5 minutes earlier was pretending to be your friend. Clinton may have made lots of mistakes while President, but at least he knew better than to get us bogged down in a quagmire like Iraq has become.
I would feel safer living here if all our troops would come back to this country and protect our borders and nuclear plants. We should not be closing military bases. We should be building up the military like we did back in the 1980′s when Reagan was President. We are the world super power and we need to start showing the rest of the world what we are capable of doing without thousands of ground troops to a place like Iraq to be picked off one at a time by suicide bombers.
He did no such thing. He was asked what would be done and he said, All options are on the table.
Hmmmm…where have we heard this before? Oh yeah!
Yes and those 1800 deaths have brought freedom for 27 million people from a tyrannical dictator that killed over 300,000 citizens in a span of 30 years. That s kind of like wiping out the entire city of Tampa.
In reality, AWOL George only started caring about the “freedom”-thingy after it was discovered he had lied about WMD.
And in reality, we haven’t brought freedom to Iraqis. We’ve merely shuffled the deck chairs of power on the Titanic.
My friendly, no BS advice. Change the title of this thread.
Dugger
Yes and those 1800 deaths have brought freedom for 27 million people from a tyrannical dictator that killed over 300,000 citizens in a span of 30 years. That s kind of like wiping out the entire city of Tampa.
Yes, and Bush has killed nearly 100,000 citizens in just about 3 years. I’d say he’s right on target. I’m sure they would love to enjoy the “freedom” Bush has brought them. Hey, at least all of those Halliburton employees are having a record year though, right? [1]
And you may want to talk to some of the woman of Iraq who are worried that Sharia Law will be a major part of the Iraqi Constitution. [1] [2] [3]
The lawless, violent anarchy in the mad, mad, Mad MAX wonderland we’ve created in Iraq IS NOT FREEDOM.
IF the Iraqi’s sent us two senators and several representatives, maybe I’d feel better about investing hundreds of billions of dollars and soldiers’ lives to this endeavor.
…still, the Cubans must be pissed the Iraqi’s jumped to the front of the line like that!
Don’t you guys get tired of the Wurlitzer gearing up again? We were LIED TO about Iraq, now the same bullshit is getting tossed out there about Iran.
So this is the pattern-we sell them the weapons (Saddam’s chemical weapons and Iran’s conventional weapons-remember Iran-Contra?) then we destroy their country for having them?
They’re even floating the trial balloon of using NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
This is INSANE.
Thats OK with me – at least in Iran he might improve things.
In the last 24 hours I’ve been in toch with Farhad Hoseini of the International Federation of Iranian Refugees (IFIR), who reports that two gay men — Farbod Mostaar and Ahmad Chooka — have been tried and sentenced to be executed for homosexuality on August 28, in the Iranian city of Arak.
l
Christ, you people lie with such ease it amazes me. It truly amazes me.
I shouldn t say you were lying because I don t know if you actually know these figures are completely bogus and have been thoroughly debunked. If that s the case, then you re just ignorant.
Take your pick.
Okay, let’s try this in a search for common ground: Do you notice that as things get closer they appear bigger?
Just a straight answer. ‘cuz, y’know, if you can’t manage that there really is no hope for this nation we call the good ol’ US of A.
Yes, and Bush has killed nearly 100,000 citizens in just about 3 years.
Christ, you people lie with such ease it amazes me. It truly amazes me.
I shouldn’t say you were lying because I don’t know if you actually know these figures are completely bogus and have been thoroughly debunked. If that’s the case, then you’re just ignorant.
Take your pick.
In reality, AWOL George only started caring about the freedom -thingy after it was discovered he had lied about WMD.
Right. Apparently, you didn’t read the resolution.
Tommy Flanagan. That’s who you are.
Yes, and Bush has killed nearly 100,000 citizens in just about 3 years.
Christ, you people lie with such ease it amazes me. It truly amazes me.
Right. Apparently, you didn t read the resolution.
Nor did Paul Wolfowitz:
You’re splitting hairs, Jay. The interviewer asked Bush directly if “all options” included military force. Bush said it did.
Now you’d be perfectly right–technically, at least–to say that “not ruling out the use of force” is different from “threatening force.” But let’s see how that shoe fits on someone else’s foot. The government of (just picking from thin air) Germany wants the U.S. to remove all weapons from German soil. The U.S. balks. An interviewer asks the Chancellor what he’s going to do about it and the Chancellor says “all options are on the table, including military force.”
Have we been threatened?
In Iran they say it’s better to fight the American threat in Iraq so you don’t have to fight ‘em at home. They call it the flypaper strategy. Certain contingents in Syria and Saudi Arabia have also bought into the flypaper strategy.
Yeah, Remainder L. Simon brought this one up a few weeks ago. By their own nutcake math, The Chimp has reduced deaths by 30% in Iraq. So those 1800+ Americans, and 60,000+ Iraqis and the $300B cost to the taxpayer and the added danger to America and the world and the lost opportunity to get Osama and the shredding of our armed forces and all the unneeded hatred of America has reduced deaths in Iraq by 30%. By Remainder L Simon’s math.
Great deal!
The 100,000 death figure was an estimation and probably not very accurate. But a very conservative and completely documented figure puts the total between 23,456 and 26,559 as of today. And those are just documented violent deaths. The actual number is probably at least 35,000 by now.
The misleading thing about the 300,000 deaths under Saddam, though, is that many of them came during actual acts of rebellion. The Kurdish rebellion of 1988 and 1991, the Shi’ite rebellion of 1991 and the Marsh Arab rebellion of 1997 yielded over 250,000 deaths alone. Or rather, the crackdown against those rebellions led to those deaths. The worst was the Anfal campaign against the Kurds between 1986 and 1989 that killed 182,000 Kurds, many of them women and children. The US was still a friend of Saddam then so President Reagan refused to condemn Saddam for those atrocities. Comparing the brutality of Saddam’s regime to the chaos of post-Saddam Iraq is a bit like apples and oranges. The deaths come from different sources. But if raw numbers are used, then 300,000 deaths over 30 years equals 10,000 per year, and that’s about the rate Iraqis are dying violently now. The real question is whether or not that number will go down, or will a burgeoning civil war make the number go up.
Remember it was Bush’s rhetoric (axis of evil) and refusal to deal with them that drives Iran toward nuclear weapons. Now with our army bogged down dealing with the PRETEND threat of Iraq we have limited military options to deal with the actual REALITY threats like Iran and North Korea.
Oliver, I really dont think Bush is planning on invading Iran. For one thing, the pentagon is having a hard enough time keeping the troop level in Iraq (never mind the spin) and a lot of republicans in Congress might have something to say about it, never mind the democrats who voted Iraq resolution, in the first place. The threat of another debacle like Iraq’s certain WMDs that didn’t exist would be just enough to ensure that the democrats take control of congress. While Jay, Dugger and the rest of the diehard chimpies will say otherwise, they would rightfully be concerned.
For the sake of arguement I will say this. The current accepted view of Iran is that they are all a bunch of muslim extremists who hate all Americans. There is already a strong movement for more democracy in Iran, even though the ones in power say otherwise. The best way to dash their efforts is to threaten an invasion.
To Jay C, Dugger, etc…..
“you people lie with such ease it amazes me”
Whoa there, big fellas. Let’s see who the REAL liars are.
Yeah, sometimes we moderates (or, as you Chimpies like to call us, ‘liberals’) do exaggerate for emphasis, and we shouldn’t. But let’s see what the neo-cons have told YOU:
1. We will be greeted as liberators.
2. Saddam definitely had a nuclear program and hundreds of tons of chemical
weapons.
3. Other countries will be happy to jump in and help us, and will send 150,000
troops to aid the occupation.
4. Any decorated Veteran who runs against a Republican is a liar, coward, traitor, and
deserve his medals. Smear ‘em! Ruin them! Yeah, that’s America!
5. All liberals hate America.
(NOTE: Logically, if we hated America, why would we care what damage the neo-
cons do to her? Practically, I invite any Bush supporter to come to Baltimore and
call me an enemy of America to my face, you lying chickenshit pinheads.)
6. The hostilities would be over in “weeks, not months.”
7. Oil revenues would pay for our invasion and rebuilding.
8. Every intelligence, foeign policy, and military official pointing out the lies,
subterfuge, and negligence of the Bush folks is a partisan liar. No matter that they
served their country for decades, under Republican presidents who trusted them,
and they never had any anti-government agenda until the neo-con junta.
9. There are 150-200,000 fully trained Iraqi troops, ready to defend their country.
10. After the turnover of power, everything will get better.
11. After the elections in Iraq, everything will get better.
12. Torturing captives was never authorized by government/military leaders.
13. Baghdad is just as safe as any city in America.
14. Invading Iraq had nothing to do with Oil, or enriching Halliburton. IT WAS ABOUT
9/11! 9/11! 9/11! 9/11! DID WE MENTION 9/11?!!!!
15. Terry Schiavo’s husband and his supporters were trying to kill a conscious,
helpless woman, who could see and hear and respond to stimuli.
16. Cindy Sheehan is a tool of leftist elements, a ‘media whore’ and ‘kook.’
17. Tax cuts aimed overwhelmingly at the wealthy will help everyone!
18. The ballooning defecit has nothing to do with Bush’s tax cuts.
19. The economy is improving (even though the defecit makes this like feeling rich
with $1000 in your pocket when you’ve just charged it to your credit card.)
20. Liberals wanted to extend ‘understanding and therapy’ to the 9/11 attackers.
21. Liberal attitudes are to blame for Priest pedophilia and broken marriages (although
the highest incidence of kid-touching is in Kentucky, and the most stable
marriages are found in Massachusetts.)
22. Abortion is murder, but Fundamentalists letting sick kids die without medical care
is treated like a misdemeanor.
23. Democrats are weak on defense and anti-veteran, even though we were all behind
cleaning up Afghanistan, and the Bushies cut veterans benefits by a billion $.
24. Bush would only go to war as a “last resort,” when actually he engineered any
excuse he could find for occupying Iraq.
25. Bush is for reducing dependence on foreign oil, when he has done nothing to
increase gas mileage and reduce waste.
26. Liberals don’t believe in hard work; what crap… every liberal I know has a job, and
many are small employers.
27. Blue staters are parasites living off the Red states. Not so. Blue states are net
generators of federal revenue, and Red states are net recipients of same.
28. Bush backers are the bastion of morality. Actually, pedophilia, divorce, and porn
consumption are all higher in Red states.
29. The poor are that way because they’re lazy and immoral. Tell that to a woman
raising three kids whose husband left her for a bimbo & whose rent, heat, and gas
costs have doubled.
30. Bush’s people can do no wrong. Oh please. The worst of them are defended
viciously, and supported in their legal defenses even when they’re plainly dirty.
I could go on like this for hours. But here’s my bottom-line statement to all you Bush-stroking yahoos out there:
DEMOCRATS HAVE BLED AND DIED FOR AMERICA. So have Buddhists, Jews, and Atheists. I’m certain gay men and lesbians have too. THIS IS WHY WE WON’T LET YOU MAKE US ALL FEEL WE DON’T BELONG IN AMERICA. We have paid our dues, and we deserve respect. BEING A WHITE CHRISTIAN REPUBLICAN DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU A GOOD PERSON, AND BEING ANYTHING ELSE DOESN’T MAKE US AMERICA’S ENEMY.
Got that? Or were there too many big words? It would take your President two days, a dictionary, and a tutor to read this one post. Please, guys: abandon the Bush cabal, and support Republicans who are sane and bright isntead. The kind of men my Grandfather believed in; Bush, Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. would have made him vomit.
Here’s the main difference between us, by the way: to me, Bush backers are still fellow Americans, and deserve their speech and freedom rights, no matter how little I think of their beliefs. To them, however, I’m an actual enemy; and they would like to see me, my family, and all my friends dead, behind bars, destitute, and/or silent.
man I am waxing nostalgic, for the Domino Theory, body counts, and peace talks with fragmented entities. if only we had a diplomatic front, we could bomb Tehran and negotiate with the Moolahs. Kissinger is right, we need to give Bush the whole package, but then this a just half a country in so many other ways since he took office. bomb Tehran? sure, but first some remedial history lessons for our savior in chief.
Woodwakr,
What an odd post. Proclaim yourself a moderate and then use language and “logic” suggesting anything but (“chimpies”, etc).
A few thoughts for you. On either side, you can find anybody who has said anything. So quoting a “minority” position establishes nothing. Nor does quoting out of context. Nor does proclaiming things that either you don’t agree with or turned out to be wrong as “lies”. That is not moderate. I ran down your litany of 30 items and didn’t find one that is a reasonable indictment of Rs or Bush. Not one. My judgement as always is predicated on the supposition that you cannot read minds. I can make a reasonable indictment of the Bush administration re Iraq in one sentence: The price for Iraq today is too high in terms of lives and dollars for the likely overall benefit gained tomorrow. How bout that? No devils. No grand conspiracy. No half the population bad, the other half good. No “its all about OIL”.
A probable miscalculation. Not as “sexy” as your Hollywoodish white-hat/black-hat scenarios is it?
Dugger, Since I’m More Virtuous, You Must be Lyin’
I got it! Henry Kissenger is still kicking. Why not send him to Iran and he can give the whole mess away ahead of time before the invasion. this time without killing 55000 brave american soldiers.
Reply to Dugger:
” I ran down your litany of 30 items and didn t find one that is a reasonable indictment of Rs or Bush.”
Right. Because you’ve made up your mind NOT TO SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH BUSH & CO. EVEN WHEN PRESENTED WITH MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE. The faith-based political community JUST WILL NOT see the actual moral and political failings of the neo-cons. My God. How pathetic.
And while we’re at it, let’s see who the actual ad hominem experts are:
Every Bush & Co. argument is ad hominem. Every criticism (now read this carefully, bright boy) aimed at Bush et al is countered NOT BY AN ATTACK ON THE CRITICISM, BUT ON THE CRITIC. EVERY SINGLE ONE. They want you to believe that it’s all media bias, or librul agendas, or personal vendettas. They SMEAR AND SMEAR AND SMEAR but never address the actual criticism. Can it be because… they really have no response? And everything they support is ad hominem also… THESE ARE GOOD GOD-FEARING PEOPLE, SO WHAT THEY SAY MUST BE TRUE. (or is that ad vericundiam? I forget) THESE ARE THE MOST ELEMENTAL FALLACIES: 1) That’s a bad man, so his statements must be false, and 2) a great authority said it, so it must be true.
“Proclaim yourself a moderate”
Oh yes. I am. Many ideas on the far left make my skin crawl. I am a proud gun owner. I am against automatic unlimited welfare. Ditto benefits to illegal immigrants. I think abortions after 90 days are barbaric and should be illegal. I think about 40% of ACLU positions are insane. I think pedophiles should be implanted with a tracking chip for life. I could go on.
But I identify as a liberal, because that’s what y’all call me. And I will always be a bit left of center. Why? BECAUSE THE ‘RIGHT’ IS ON THE SIDE OF CORPORATE POWER, ESTABLISHED DOMINANT RELIGION AND THE WEALTHY. And they don’t need the help. Get it? THEY DON’T NEED THE HELP. It’s so amusing hearing conservatives howl about the damage being done by ‘libruls’ who are generally working-class, and have little clout or voice. Oh help! Save us from the libruls!
You just can’t believe that a moderate could hate Bush, Cheney Inc. as much as I do. But I do. But what energizes me the most is WHAT THOSE SWINE LIMBAUGH, ROVE, COULTER, HANNITY, O’REILLY, NOVAK etc. SAY ABOUT ME. Because of them, millions of Americans would automatically hate me if they knew about me, BASED ON WHAT THESE ASSHOLES TELL THEM. That I don’t support the troops (by the way, I’ve sent $300 worth of home-comfort goodies to soldiers in Iraq. How much have you sent?) That I’m against gun ownership rights. That I’ve never worked an honest day (hey: I stared a business from nothing and am now an employer, you shits) That I had sympathy for the highjackers. That I’m soft on criminals. That I’m anti-religion. Or anti-freedom. Yadda yadda yadda.
But mainly: That I’m against Bush because there’s something wrong with me.
There is nothing wrong with me. I am a taxpaying loyal American. I read multiple US and international news sources, so I’m way more informed than the Fox-watchers out there. I have an IQ of 155, so I’m among the smartest people in the country. I am a happily-married student of US history and restore historically significant buildings professionally.
What the neo-conservatives say about me is, like almost everything else they say, a big fat self-serving self-righteous disingenuous fucking lie. And it has gotten me so mad and my wife so depressed that we don’t know what else to do but to oppose Bush, his war, his plans to rape the middle class and the environment, etc.
Seeing him on tape joking about the missing WMD’s, looking around under his desk and grinning his arrogant smirk while Cindy Sheehan’s son was getting his guts blown out looking for them wracks me with fear and loathing.
Go ahead, bright boy. Address that one sentence. Defend your callous retard President. Go ahead. Don’t attack me, defend him. If you can’t, what does that mean?
Logic is logic, pal. Ain’t no liberal or conservative logic. But you, while accusing me of ad hominem fallacy, failed to counter any statement of mine, but only criticised me.
Where have I seen that before?
woodwakr,
OOOKKKKKAYYYY. I’ll, uhh, be responding to you in more detail a little later although I’m not equiped to dela with a genius such as yourself. Good luck with those buildings and stuff and I’ll tell Wolfie and Condie and Rove etc to, uhh, stop saying things about you. Weather’s nice down here. Whistle whistle whistle .. Going to walk away from the keyboard for a while now .. whistle whistle
shhh, dugger