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	<title>Comments on: Do They Not Get It?</title>
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	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/08/12/do-they-not-get-it/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
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		<title>By: maddie</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/08/12/do-they-not-get-it/#comment-3935</link>
		<dc:creator>maddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=280#comment-3935</guid>
		<description>I know I&#039;m just a dumb girl, but it seems to me that the logic of electing Democrats to protect choice only applies if Democrats are actually pro-choice.

I think Harry Reid&#039;s doing a good job, but he&#039;s not pro-choice, and neither are several other candidates that the Democratic party has supported recently.  Stop assuming NARAL and other women&#039;s groups are dumb and don&#039;t get political strategy - we get that y&#039;all really think you can pick up the somehow more valuable white male values voter by selling us out and not only are we pissed about it, we think it&#039;s bad strategy that does nothing to buildi a progressive majority.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;m just a dumb girl, but it seems to me that the logic of electing Democrats to protect choice only applies if Democrats are actually pro-choice.</p>
<p>I think Harry Reid&#8217;s doing a good job, but he&#8217;s not pro-choice, and neither are several other candidates that the Democratic party has supported recently.  Stop assuming NARAL and other women&#8217;s groups are dumb and don&#8217;t get political strategy &#8211; we get that y&#8217;all really think you can pick up the somehow more valuable white male values voter by selling us out and not only are we pissed about it, we think it&#8217;s bad strategy that does nothing to buildi a progressive majority.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark J</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/08/12/do-they-not-get-it/#comment-3934</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=280#comment-3934</guid>
		<description>Oliver, &quot;Robertson&quot; =&gt; &quot;Roberts&quot;  Damn him for having such a generic and hard-to-remember name, eh?

&lt;blockquote&gt;What NARAL and its supporters seems to not understand is that the era of single issue selfishness is over.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If they do not understand that, then maybe the era of single-issue selfishness &lt;em&gt;isn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; over.  Andrea seems peeved that her issue isn&#039;t being given sufficient attention.  The Democratic party has to walk a fine line... because I think there are a lot of single-issue Democrat voters.  You have your anti-war people, your abortion-rights-for-women people, your environment people, your social programs people, etc.  Even though they might all agree on a lot of things, there are many of them who would be instantly turned off if for a moment they sensed that their issue wasn&#039;t of vital importance to the Democratic party.

Oliver, you&#039;re rather a melting pot of Democratic ideals, but many Dems aren&#039;t.  Asking people last year why they were going to vote for Kerry, I got a lot of one-line answers.  &quot;Abortion.&quot;  &quot;The War in Iraq.&quot;  &quot;Education.&quot;  &quot;The Environment.&quot;  Etc.  These people certainly had other reasons... but if their pet issue isn&#039;t given appropriate attention, you might not be able to count on their vote.

Regarding the NARAL ad... it was dishonest.  Shoddy work, all around.  Denouncing dishonest hackery isn&#039;t a move to the right, it&#039;s a move towards a more sane political dialog.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oliver, &#8220;Robertson&#8221; => &#8220;Roberts&#8221;  Damn him for having such a generic and hard-to-remember name, eh?</p>
<blockquote><p>What NARAL and its supporters seems to not understand is that the era of single issue selfishness is over.</p></blockquote>
<p>If they do not understand that, then maybe the era of single-issue selfishness <em>isn&#8217;t</em> over.  Andrea seems peeved that her issue isn&#8217;t being given sufficient attention.  The Democratic party has to walk a fine line&#8230; because I think there are a lot of single-issue Democrat voters.  You have your anti-war people, your abortion-rights-for-women people, your environment people, your social programs people, etc.  Even though they might all agree on a lot of things, there are many of them who would be instantly turned off if for a moment they sensed that their issue wasn&#8217;t of vital importance to the Democratic party.</p>
<p>Oliver, you&#8217;re rather a melting pot of Democratic ideals, but many Dems aren&#8217;t.  Asking people last year why they were going to vote for Kerry, I got a lot of one-line answers.  &#8220;Abortion.&#8221;  &#8220;The War in Iraq.&#8221;  &#8220;Education.&#8221;  &#8220;The Environment.&#8221;  Etc.  These people certainly had other reasons&#8230; but if their pet issue isn&#8217;t given appropriate attention, you might not be able to count on their vote.</p>
<p>Regarding the NARAL ad&#8230; it was dishonest.  Shoddy work, all around.  Denouncing dishonest hackery isn&#8217;t a move to the right, it&#8217;s a move towards a more sane political dialog.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Marcotte</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/08/12/do-they-not-get-it/#comment-3933</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Marcotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=280#comment-3933</guid>
		<description>So did you read my post?  It&#039;s really condescending and sexist to tell women, &quot;Well, ladies, be quiet and know your place and we&#039;ll make sure you get your reward.  We prooooooomise.  One day.  Eventually.  Once the &#039;important&#039; stuff is done.&quot;

Oliver, NARAL and feminists don&#039;t care. Democrats will never win us over by telling us that they don&#039;t think our issues are important but we should trust them.  I don&#039;t trust anyone who says that I&#039;m not important to them.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So did you read my post?  It&#8217;s really condescending and sexist to tell women, &#8220;Well, ladies, be quiet and know your place and we&#8217;ll make sure you get your reward.  We prooooooomise.  One day.  Eventually.  Once the &#8216;important&#8217; stuff is done.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oliver, NARAL and feminists don&#8217;t care. Democrats will never win us over by telling us that they don&#8217;t think our issues are important but we should trust them.  I don&#8217;t trust anyone who says that I&#8217;m not important to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/08/12/do-they-not-get-it/#comment-3932</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2005 00:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=280#comment-3932</guid>
		<description>Via Digby, &lt;a href=&quot;http://plumer.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_plumer_archive.html#112365662129898444&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Brad Plumer&lt;/a&gt; had a good take on the opposing view:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Call me cynical, but I don&#039;t believe for a second that modern-day Democrats would think twice about selling out a constituency or interest group for the sake of electoral gain. Not a warm and fuzzy picture of the home team, but there you go. The moment NARAL gives the party reason to take pro-choice constituents for granted, they&#039;ll get shafted. Look at black voters, or unions, over the past decade. Look at how the religious right has been roundly abused by the Republican Party. (When&#039;s that gay-marriage amendment coming? Oh right, never. Chumps. Now keep voting for us.) Parties always pander towards groups that are in danger of defecting; they know they can screw over the loyal core somewhat, so long as there are no consequences. Unless NARAL shows that there are consequences, such as endorsing a pro-choice Republican in a blue state, they&#039;ll get taken for granted. Maybe that&#039;s due to sexism on the part of the Democratic leadership, but mostly it&#039;s just the way coalitions work.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Via Digby, <a href="http://plumer.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_plumer_archive.html#112365662129898444" rel="nofollow">Brad Plumer</a> had a good take on the opposing view:</p>
<blockquote><p>Call me cynical, but I don&#8217;t believe for a second that modern-day Democrats would think twice about selling out a constituency or interest group for the sake of electoral gain. Not a warm and fuzzy picture of the home team, but there you go. The moment NARAL gives the party reason to take pro-choice constituents for granted, they&#8217;ll get shafted. Look at black voters, or unions, over the past decade. Look at how the religious right has been roundly abused by the Republican Party. (When&#8217;s that gay-marriage amendment coming? Oh right, never. Chumps. Now keep voting for us.) Parties always pander towards groups that are in danger of defecting; they know they can screw over the loyal core somewhat, so long as there are no consequences. Unless NARAL shows that there are consequences, such as endorsing a pro-choice Republican in a blue state, they&#8217;ll get taken for granted. Maybe that&#8217;s due to sexism on the part of the Democratic leadership, but mostly it&#8217;s just the way coalitions work.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/08/12/do-they-not-get-it/#comment-3931</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2005 00:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=280#comment-3931</guid>
		<description>Well, you can huff and puff about &#039;unity&#039;, but a person or an organization has the right to get tired and stop helping people who aren&#039;t helping them.

Talking about how the Dems are on &#039;our side&#039; won&#039;t be very persuasive to a person who has already decided they&#039;re not.

In my own case, my congressman Norm Dicks can make the military cash register play Yankee Doodle.  As a pacifist, I don&#039;t find this to be a very useful attribute in a congressman.

Combine this with almost everything else that touches our lives, and you have a Democratic Party in a &quot;Roll Over and Play Dead&quot; contest with the Rs.

That&#039;s just my opinion.  But I bet when gas reaches $10/gallon you&#039;ll start to hear what I&#039;m saying.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you can huff and puff about &#8216;unity&#8217;, but a person or an organization has the right to get tired and stop helping people who aren&#8217;t helping them.</p>
<p>Talking about how the Dems are on &#8216;our side&#8217; won&#8217;t be very persuasive to a person who has already decided they&#8217;re not.</p>
<p>In my own case, my congressman Norm Dicks can make the military cash register play Yankee Doodle.  As a pacifist, I don&#8217;t find this to be a very useful attribute in a congressman.</p>
<p>Combine this with almost everything else that touches our lives, and you have a Democratic Party in a &#8220;Roll Over and Play Dead&#8221; contest with the Rs.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just my opinion.  But I bet when gas reaches $10/gallon you&#8217;ll start to hear what I&#8217;m saying.</p>
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