Truckers protest the rising gas prices. But let’s get serious: if we argue with the Saudi oil cartels they won’t have enough money to fund terrorism and kill Americans, and where’s the fun in that??
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Oliver Willis
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When you run a cartel and artifically manipulate the prices for crude? Yes.
And you think the Saudi’s can just snap their fingers and make oil prices go down?
I never realized this, but when our media says things like “the price of a barrel of oil just reached $60″, they are actually referring to the speculation on oil futures, not the current market price. Just saying …
Bush: Don’t Tap Reserve; Blame Clinton-Gore for Oil Prices
UPI
Friday, Sept. 22, 2000
To ease prices in the near term, Bush said, the White House should press nations from the Organization of Petroleum Producing Countries to step up production by reminding them of American support in the past.
Bush said Arab OPEC leaders should keep the Gulf War in mind when asked by the United States for relief. And he said Mexico, a country with huge potential for oil exports, should recall the recent U.S. financial bailout.
“We need to work with our friends and allies in OPEC as well as energy-producing countries in our own hemisphere to ensure greater stability in our oil markets,” Bush said.
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/9/21/174054
I mean, I know I saw him holding hands with that oil sheik, but my gas prices went up, up , up?
But, why are we even buying oil from Saudi Arabia when we’re stealing all that Iraqi oil?
Seriously, I hear a lot of whining, but no proposals for a solution. Last time I checked, you libs seem to have a lot of respect for the sovereignty of Arab tyrannies. So, are you suggesting Bush just ask them nicely to drop the price? Or, would it be ok, just this one time, to invade an Arab country for their oil?
I’ll sit back and wait for ad-hominem you’ll soon be tossing my way.
It’s called investing the scientific infrastructure of this country – the same infrastructure that went to the moon, built the a-bomb, and created the internet – in once and for all developing an alternative to the crack.
Wikipedia? It’s hardly a reliable source considering that any dope can create an account and put in whatever they want.
The facts (and I know those can be pesky things to you O when it gets in the way of an anti-Bush rant) are that demand has been keeping up with and has pushed ahead of supply thanks to the United States and China. Combine that with the fact that refineries in the US are operating at least 95% of capacity and the fact that OPEC is pumping at 26 year highs doesn’t matter too much.
In addition, the average American motorist is still buying up gas despite higher prices. Road travel during the summer has set records.
Now, explain to everybody again how Saudi Arabia can just flick a switch and bring prices down?
It doesn’t take wikipedia to know the history of oil supply manipulation by the Saudis and the fact that we have a history – especially with this president – of absolutely wimping out to them. That doesn’t change the larger issue of the ridiculous tactic of America passing energy bills that do nothing to address the issue of our very real energy problems. Or do you intend to tell the regular Americans and businesspeople who are paying through the nose that the greatest country in the world should just throw its hands up in the air and be a bitch for Saudi Arabia when we could be doing something?
you libs seem to have a lot of respect for the sovereignty of Arab tyrannies.
Look, oil requires a very complex infrastructure, any point of which is highly susceptible to sabotage. That is why we don’t have Iraqi oil right now. If we were to replicate the Iraqi experiment across the middle east, you’d be paying ten dollars a gallon for gas instead of $2.30.
If you really want to undermine the Middle-Eastern oil kingdoms, push for the development of a real alternative to fossil fuels. Those kingdoms would fold faster than a tent in a hurricane.
The Saudi oil barons regularly manipulate the cost of oil by increasing/decreasing the amount of crude available (to pretend otherwise is lunacy). Our current strategy seems to be to simply pretend that this can go on for the next 1,000 years and its no big deal – we just keep going into wars in the mideast in order to keep our fuel flowing without thought to the longterm problems. What we could do is to invest billions in a Manhattan-type project to either find alternative fuel sources (sorry the “we don’t know” defense doesn’t wash — we didn’t know how to go to outer space safely in the ’50s either) or better ways of working with what we can produce so we can get off the Saudi teat. As it is they’ve got us over a barrell and the reaction of your beloved President seems to be “don’t mess with the family friends”.
It doesn t take wikipedia to know the history of oil supply manipulation by the Saudis and the fact that we have a history – especially with this president – of absolutely wimping out to them.
Oliver, this is all text-book Democratic chatter, but it doesn’t mean a damned thing. “Wimping out to them.” What does that mean? Be specific. What is it exactly that we can do that would no longer make us ‘wimps’ and would get the Saudi’s to do something that would lower oil prices?
That doesn t change the larger issue of the ridiculous tactic of America passing energy bills that do nothing to address the issue of our very real energy problems.
Well you didn’t address that issue. Your post title is ‘Shades of Carter’ and you used the opportunity to mention truck drivers protesting high gas prices as a way of saying the Saudi’s are responsible for the high prices and that Bush won’t do anything about it.
Or do you intend to tell the regular Americans and businesspeople who are paying through the nose that the greatest country in the world should just throw its hands up in the air and be a bitch for Saudi Arabia when we could be doing something?
There you go again. You can’t make these kinds of accusations withouth some proof and saying OPEC has a history of manipulating prices doesn’t wash. I was a commodities trader for 3 years. It’s no secret that OPEC can nudge the market, but the price of crude has gone up almost $25 in the last year while at the same time OPEC has increased volumes not seen in a quarter of a century. Sorry, but the Saudis don’t have that much clout.
As for “doing something”, it sounds like a variation of people who say, that we need to use “alternative energy sources” but never say what those sources are, nor do they let people know that such alternative sources right now are a LOT more expensive (the up front costs anyway). For instance, if you want solar panels on your house, the initial costs could be anywhere between $10-$20 thousand. Want a new hybrid Honda Civic? Thirty grand.
Want to have a discussion about it? By all means, do so. But simply saying oil prices are high because the Saudi’s manipulated the market and Bush won’t do anything about it is silly.
Would other services reduce the price the Saudis charge for gas?
The Saudis don’t charge for gas. And the last time I checked the Saudis don’t own the worlds oil supply that allows them to set prices.
And again, while pressuring OPEC to either increase production or hold back production can have a short term effect (note the words “near term” in the article), prices have been increasing over the last year despite record level production from OPEC.
Maybe if one side of the aisle wasn’t so steadfast in filibustering attempts to increase drilling capacity…
The only person that ever argued that a president can bring down oil prices would be – the President. Why didn’t he ask for relief when he was holding hands with oil sheiks in the rose garden? Would other services reduce the price the Saudis charge for gas?
Bush: Don t Tap Reserve; Blame Clinton-Gore for Oil Prices
UPI
Friday, Sept. 22, 2000
To ease prices in the near term, Bush said, the White House should press nations from the Organization of Petroleum Producing Countries to step up production by reminding them of American support in the past.
Bush said Arab OPEC leaders should keep the Gulf War in mind when asked by the United States for relief. And he said Mexico, a country with huge potential for oil exports, should recall the recent U.S. financial bailout.
We need to work with our friends and allies in OPEC as well as energy-producing countries in our own hemisphere to ensure greater stability in our oil markets, Bush said.
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/9/21/174054
The Saudi oil barons regularly manipulate the cost of oil by increasing/decreasing the amount of crude available (to pretend otherwise is lunacy).
So you’re saying that Saudi Arabia alone is responsible for the $25 increase in the cost of oil over the last year. Is that what you’re saying? Because if it is, I’d like to know how prices increased while OPEC was increasing production. I’ve already pointed out that OPEC production levels are at twenty five year highs. They’ve just increased production again. Your contention is the Saudi’s manipulate prices by increasing or decreasing the amount of crude available. Well, there’s more availalable now. How come prices aren’t going down Oliver?
What we could do is to invest billions in a Manhattan-type project to either find alternative fuel sources (sorry the we don t know defense doesn t wash we didn t know how to go to outer space safely in the 50s either) or better ways of working with what we can produce so we can get off the Saudi teat.
We already have alternatives and like I said, those alternatives are very expensive. Write me a check for fifty grand and I’ll happily buy a Honda Civic hybrid and solar panel my house.
As it is they ve got us over a barrell and the reaction of your beloved President seems to be don t mess with the family friends .
Typical Oliver. When you run out of things to say you resort to circular reasoning.
Or if one side didn’t simply make shit up about the oil that all the wonderful so-called drilling capacity would create, or not create.
Read this to add to the discussion, if you have a couple of hours:
http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2004/06/AnewManhattanProject.shtml
Short answer, Oliver it ain’t gonna happen in the real world, at least not soon enough to have any effect whatsoever on the current situation. There are things we can do, right now, to lower the cost of fuel. The most immediate would be to stop requiring refineries to supply different blends of fuel to different states. The next step would be to add refining capacity, and user more nuclear power. But, the chances of these things happening are slim to none due to the power of the environmental lobby.
How is it circular reasoning to state the fact that our president refuses to do anything anything to pressure Saudi Arabia to even remotely alleviate the cost of fuel to us?
It’s circular reasoning when you claim the reason why prices are so high is because the Saudis are purposely manipulating the prices and then when asked how that is so, respond essentially with, “Because it’s so.” That’s circular reasoning.
And how many times do I have to repeat that this is not an issue of OPEC or the Saudis holding back production?
Now you re using circular logic by talking about hybrid s, etc. It s kind of like deciding not to go to the moon in the 60s because well, we have cars already.
First of all, you’re equating two completely different things. My brother can’t take a trip to the moon, so it’s irrelevant. He does however, have to heat his home in the winter and drive his Jeep Cherokee. I’m sure he’d much rather have a hybrid SUV and have solar panels to heat his home in the winter. In the long run, both are going to save him money. But, the up front costs are too much. We’re talking tens of thousands of dollars. Most people don’t have that kind of cash lying around to drop on these alternative sources of energy.
I’m not opposed to the ideas. I’m just playing devil’s advocate. The technology already exists for us to alleviate our dependence upon oil, but at a very substantial out of pocket cost for the consumer. How do we get past that roadblock?
Oliver,
is the oil we could glean from ANWR greater than 0? Then why the argument?
How is it circular reasoning to state the fact that our president refuses to do anything — anything to pressure Saudi Arabia to even remotely alleviate the cost of fuel to us? They aren’t solely responsible but it’s not as if they have nothing to do with the issue either.
Now you’re using circular logic by talking about hybrid’s, etc. It’s kind of like deciding not to go to the moon in the 60s because well, we have cars already.
The cash in the pork-bloated bill could have gone to researching new alternatives.