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	<title>Comments on: AP Lies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/</link>
	<description>Like Kryptonite To Stupid</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: FREDSSON002</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>FREDSSON002</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2005 08:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2321</guid>
		<description>How in hell did Wilson &quot;betray his country&quot;? He said that there was no evidence of the Iraqis trying to procure yellowcake. Well, thousannds of lives and billions of dollars later, we know this to be true. He may have betrayed a White House looking for more lies to support their existing lies, but he didn&#039;t betray us.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How in hell did Wilson &#8220;betray his country&#8221;? He said that there was no evidence of the Iraqis trying to procure yellowcake. Well, thousannds of lives and billions of dollars later, we know this to be true. He may have betrayed a White House looking for more lies to support their existing lies, but he didn&#8217;t betray us.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: boadicea</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2320</link>
		<dc:creator>boadicea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2320</guid>
		<description>I really doubt you&#039;ll have to miss him for long.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really doubt you&#8217;ll have to miss him for long.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mouse</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2319</link>
		<dc:creator>Mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2319</guid>
		<description>Oh Frank, you really don&#039;t get it do you?  I didn&#039;t say that it was &quot;masochistic&quot; of you to comment on a &quot;progressive&quot; site; I simply questioned your motives.  The masochistic interpretation is all yours...which says a lot really.

And for the last time (I hope), although well-acquainted with dicks, I currently do not possess one.  Oh, and by the way, I&#039;m one of those &quot;trendy&quot; women you seem to detest so.  I am proud of my own unpronounceable, unspellable last name.  My wonderful, amazing and very secure husband seems to like my name and further distinguishes himself in being able to spell and pronounce it.

Frank, if you didn&#039;t exist, we&#039;d have to make you up; every blog needs its Daffy Duck.  I for one will miss you.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Frank, you really don&#8217;t get it do you?  I didn&#8217;t say that it was &#8220;masochistic&#8221; of you to comment on a &#8220;progressive&#8221; site; I simply questioned your motives.  The masochistic interpretation is all yours&#8230;which says a lot really.</p>
<p>And for the last time (I hope), although well-acquainted with dicks, I currently do not possess one.  Oh, and by the way, I&#8217;m one of those &#8220;trendy&#8221; women you seem to detest so.  I am proud of my own unpronounceable, unspellable last name.  My wonderful, amazing and very secure husband seems to like my name and further distinguishes himself in being able to spell and pronounce it.</p>
<p>Frank, if you didn&#8217;t exist, we&#8217;d have to make you up; every blog needs its Daffy Duck.  I for one will miss you.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: neoconsrloopy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>neoconsrloopy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>Gee, I don&#039;t miss him already.  If he stayed away, he would be the first con to keep their word.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, I don&#8217;t miss him already.  If he stayed away, he would be the first con to keep their word.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: boadicea</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2317</link>
		<dc:creator>boadicea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2317</guid>
		<description>Shorter Frank_D:

Goodbye Cruel World!!!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Frank_D:</p>
<p>Goodbye Cruel World!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2316</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2316</guid>
		<description>Nice meltdown, Frank. Really nailed the dismount.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice meltdown, Frank. Really nailed the dismount.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank_D</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2315</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank_D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2315</guid>
		<description>For people who have asked me on all too many occasions to have an open mind, and to &quot;see things from a different perspective&quot; (&#039;stop spouting ralking points&#039;, &#039;get away fom the Hannity and Limbaugh cults&#039;, etc.), not one of you lefties has even seen fit to accept the possibility that one of my comments might be right.

Usually, I am ridiculed for even believing what I believe. Now, the ridicule has become personal.

I was advised by someone (mouse, I think) that it was kind of masochistic on my part to comment on a &quot;progressive&quot; site, and bot expect to be attacked. I didn&#039;t agree, but I guess he&#039;s right.

So, I&#039;m taking the hint, packing up my links and research, and leaving you with a message even JadeGold can understand:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;A D I O S, M O T H E R F U C K E R S !!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For people who have asked me on all too many occasions to have an open mind, and to &#8220;see things from a different perspective&#8221; (&#8216;stop spouting ralking points&#8217;, &#8216;get away fom the Hannity and Limbaugh cults&#8217;, etc.), not one of you lefties has even seen fit to accept the possibility that one of my comments might be right.</p>
<p>Usually, I am ridiculed for even believing what I believe. Now, the ridicule has become personal.</p>
<p>I was advised by someone (mouse, I think) that it was kind of masochistic on my part to comment on a &#8220;progressive&#8221; site, and bot expect to be attacked. I didn&#8217;t agree, but I guess he&#8217;s right.</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;m taking the hint, packing up my links and research, and leaving you with a message even JadeGold can understand:</p>
<blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote><p><b><i>A D I O S, M O T H E R F U C K E R S !!</i></b></p></blockquote>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2314</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2314</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So you re joining the knuckle - dragger JadeGold in being the rudest, crudest commenter I ve ever encountered.&lt;/i&gt;

Irony abounds. I&#039;ve never called anybody on this site a &quot;knuckle dragger,&quot; &quot;asshole,&quot; or &quot;shithead.&quot; And somehow, making an offhand comment using a quote of Karl Rove&#039;s (and I&#039;m not a big fan of calling him Turd Blossom, either, even if the President does) makes me &quot;rudest, crudest.&quot;

And I know that Frank&#039;s had to reply to worse than what I wrote. So...either this isn&#039;t the real Frank, or he&#039;s having severe memory problems.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So you re joining the knuckle &#8211; dragger JadeGold in being the rudest, crudest commenter I ve ever encountered.</i></p>
<p>Irony abounds. I&#8217;ve never called anybody on this site a &#8220;knuckle dragger,&#8221; &#8220;asshole,&#8221; or &#8220;shithead.&#8221; And somehow, making an offhand comment using a quote of Karl Rove&#8217;s (and I&#8217;m not a big fan of calling him Turd Blossom, either, even if the President does) makes me &#8220;rudest, crudest.&#8221;</p>
<p>And I know that Frank&#8217;s had to reply to worse than what I wrote. So&#8230;either this isn&#8217;t the real Frank, or he&#8217;s having severe memory problems.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: neoconsrloopy</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2313</link>
		<dc:creator>neoconsrloopy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2313</guid>
		<description>Frankie says
I have some  real life  to live   hear that, Grubi?

ROFLMAO- this is great coming from someone who posts here 100 times a day....
Go take your Metamucil.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankie says<br />
I have some  real life  to live   hear that, Grubi?</p>
<p>ROFLMAO- this is great coming from someone who posts here 100 times a day&#8230;.<br />
Go take your Metamucil.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jadegold</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jadegold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2312</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Who betrayed his country? Rove?&lt;/i&gt;

Certainly.  I think you understand this.

Classified information is classified for a reason.  Nobody with access to such info gets to make a subjective judgment as to what info is kept classified and which isn&#039;t.  It&#039;s like cheating on your taxes; even if the IRS doesn&#039;t haul you in for an audit--you&#039;ve still cheated on your taxes.

The fact you&#039;re condoning and defending betrayal of the country doesn&#039;t speak well for you, Frank.

&lt;i&gt;And how in the world did my wife get into this?&lt;/i&gt;

You brought her up, I didn&#039;t.  I merely remarked hat anyone who believes married women who don&#039;t take their hubby&#039;s name are phonies and trendy is likely to be a lonely old man.

BTW, not taking the man&#039;s name isn&#039;t new or trendy--it&#039;s a practice that&#039;s at least several centuries old.  That aside, there are also business (captalism) reasons for not chnaging names in the event of marriage.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Who betrayed his country? Rove?</i></p>
<p>Certainly.  I think you understand this.</p>
<p>Classified information is classified for a reason.  Nobody with access to such info gets to make a subjective judgment as to what info is kept classified and which isn&#8217;t.  It&#8217;s like cheating on your taxes; even if the IRS doesn&#8217;t haul you in for an audit&#8211;you&#8217;ve still cheated on your taxes.</p>
<p>The fact you&#8217;re condoning and defending betrayal of the country doesn&#8217;t speak well for you, Frank.</p>
<p><i>And how in the world did my wife get into this?</i></p>
<p>You brought her up, I didn&#8217;t.  I merely remarked hat anyone who believes married women who don&#8217;t take their hubby&#8217;s name are phonies and trendy is likely to be a lonely old man.</p>
<p>BTW, not taking the man&#8217;s name isn&#8217;t new or trendy&#8211;it&#8217;s a practice that&#8217;s at least several centuries old.  That aside, there are also business (captalism) reasons for not chnaging names in the event of marriage.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Frank_D</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2311</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank_D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2311</guid>
		<description>You brought her up, I didn t.

You are out of what&#039;s left of your mind. I did no such thing.

I merely remarked that anyone who believes married women who don t take their hubby s name are phonies and trendy is likely to be a lonely old man.

JadeGold: You are a Grade A, USDA Prime asshole.

I&#039;m not a lonely old man, you shithead.

I live with my wife (who has my last name, and wears it with pride); I have two children, who have my last name, instead of some complicated &quot;My name is Bobby Smith - Jones&quot; crap.

And, by the way, not taking your husband&#039;s last name may go back centuries in the hills where you come from, where guys marry their sisters and stuff, but where I live it&#039;s some trendy crap that started 20 or thirty years ago.

You think I&#039;ve been nasty before, JG?

You better quit while you&#039;re behind...

I think it&#039;s safe to assume that there was a time when you and BD had parents...

We&#039;ll discuss it later...

I have some &quot;real life&quot; to live -- hear that, Grubi?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You brought her up, I didn t.</p>
<p>You are out of what&#8217;s left of your mind. I did no such thing.</p>
<p>I merely remarked that anyone who believes married women who don t take their hubby s name are phonies and trendy is likely to be a lonely old man.</p>
<p>JadeGold: You are a Grade A, USDA Prime asshole.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a lonely old man, you shithead.</p>
<p>I live with my wife (who has my last name, and wears it with pride); I have two children, who have my last name, instead of some complicated &#8220;My name is Bobby Smith &#8211; Jones&#8221; crap.</p>
<p>And, by the way, not taking your husband&#8217;s last name may go back centuries in the hills where you come from, where guys marry their sisters and stuff, but where I live it&#8217;s some trendy crap that started 20 or thirty years ago.</p>
<p>You think I&#8217;ve been nasty before, JG?</p>
<p>You better quit while you&#8217;re behind&#8230;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s safe to assume that there was a time when you and BD had parents&#8230;</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll discuss it later&#8230;</p>
<p>I have some &#8220;real life&#8221; to live &#8212; hear that, Grubi?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Frank_D</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2310</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank_D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2310</guid>
		<description>Cute, BD ... So you&#039;re joining the knuckle - dragger JadeGold in being the rudest, crudest commenter I&#039;ve ever encountered.

I guess that means neither you nor JadeGold have a wife. Why am I not surprised?

We could get dirtier than this.

I have to go get some money to visit my son in the hospital.

While I&#039;m gone, you and JadeGold can get together, and write some nasty stuff about him.

Then we&#039;ll play &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.online-magazine.com/snaps.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the dozens&lt;/a&gt;

Welcome to &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; world, buttmunch!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cute, BD &#8230; So you&#8217;re joining the knuckle &#8211; dragger JadeGold in being the rudest, crudest commenter I&#8217;ve ever encountered.</p>
<p>I guess that means neither you nor JadeGold have a wife. Why am I not surprised?</p>
<p>We could get dirtier than this.</p>
<p>I have to go get some money to visit my son in the hospital.</p>
<p>While I&#8217;m gone, you and JadeGold can get together, and write some nasty stuff about him.</p>
<p>Then we&#8217;ll play <a href="http://www.online-magazine.com/snaps.htm" rel="nofollow">the dozens</a></p>
<p>Welcome to <i>my</i> world, buttmunch!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Quaker in a Basement</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2309</link>
		<dc:creator>Quaker in a Basement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2309</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Don t forget the saying,  Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will always be used by liberals, instead of orguments.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;JadeGold: You are a Grade A, USDA Prime asshole.

I m not a lonely old man, you shithead.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Don t forget the saying,  Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will always be used by liberals, instead of orguments.
</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>JadeGold: You are a Grade A, USDA Prime asshole.</p>
<p>I m not a lonely old man, you shithead.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: boadicea</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2308</link>
		<dc:creator>boadicea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2308</guid>
		<description>&gt;Boadicea: And what party might that be? Not the Republican Party. I haven t been a Republican for about 25 years. Guess again.

Sorry for the assumption. You just follow the talking points so thoroughly, that I mistook you for one.

&gt;Try arguing with what I am saying, instead of with me.

Honey, you really don&#039;t personally matter to me one way or the other in this argument because I don&#039;t know you. I&#039;m sorry to hear your son is ill and I hope you and your family find the strength you need to meet whatever challenges you all will face.

What you represent-whatever your political affiliation-is something else altogether. You echo the Republican talking points with added persecution sauce.  That hurts our country. The one we presumably both care about.

And, your technique of changing the topic when your misinterpretations fail to shut up Bush critics is just not going to work on me. Expect me to point it out whenever I see it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>Boadicea: And what party might that be? Not the Republican Party. I haven t been a Republican for about 25 years. Guess again.</p>
<p>Sorry for the assumption. You just follow the talking points so thoroughly, that I mistook you for one.</p>
<p>>Try arguing with what I am saying, instead of with me.</p>
<p>Honey, you really don&#8217;t personally matter to me one way or the other in this argument because I don&#8217;t know you. I&#8217;m sorry to hear your son is ill and I hope you and your family find the strength you need to meet whatever challenges you all will face.</p>
<p>What you represent-whatever your political affiliation-is something else altogether. You echo the Republican talking points with added persecution sauce.  That hurts our country. The one we presumably both care about.</p>
<p>And, your technique of changing the topic when your misinterpretations fail to shut up Bush critics is just not going to work on me. Expect me to point it out whenever I see it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Frank_D</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2306</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank_D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2306</guid>
		<description>Boadicea: And what party might that be? Not the Republican Party. I haven&#039;t been a Republican for about 25 years. Guess again.

Try arguing with what I am saying, instead of with &lt;i&gt;me&lt;/i&gt;

I understand that you think I am a time - wasting troll.

I understand that you think that if I only had &quot;the facts&quot; I would see things your way.

I understand that you think that I learned everything I know from Hannity and Limbaugh -- when I haven&#039;t listened to either one in &lt;b&gt;years&lt;/b&gt;

Example: Whether a crime has been committed remains to be seen, but shouldn t matter a whit.

It matters to me.

Example: But to modern-day Republicans and their apologists, they can do no wrong. No Republican s action is worthy of scorn or censure. They are perfect. Flawless. Immune to error. Godlike.

This is over -  the -  top, hyperbole. It is bullshit. He knows it, and you know it.
This is the standard liberal &quot;box&quot;: &quot;Everyone knows&quot;  Rove should be fired, so just fire him, and end this (the fact that we will get our way, without all that fussy due process, is just a coincidence -- how conveeeenient!).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boadicea: And what party might that be? Not the Republican Party. I haven&#8217;t been a Republican for about 25 years. Guess again.</p>
<p>Try arguing with what I am saying, instead of with <i>me</i></p>
<p>I understand that you think I am a time &#8211; wasting troll.</p>
<p>I understand that you think that if I only had &#8220;the facts&#8221; I would see things your way.</p>
<p>I understand that you think that I learned everything I know from Hannity and Limbaugh &#8212; when I haven&#8217;t listened to either one in <b>years</b></p>
<p>Example: Whether a crime has been committed remains to be seen, but shouldn t matter a whit.</p>
<p>It matters to me.</p>
<p>Example: But to modern-day Republicans and their apologists, they can do no wrong. No Republican s action is worthy of scorn or censure. They are perfect. Flawless. Immune to error. Godlike.</p>
<p>This is over &#8211;  the &#8211;  top, hyperbole. It is bullshit. He knows it, and you know it.<br />
This is the standard liberal &#8220;box&#8221;: &#8220;Everyone knows&#8221;  Rove should be fired, so just fire him, and end this (the fact that we will get our way, without all that fussy due process, is just a coincidence &#8212; how conveeeenient!).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2307</guid>
		<description>Welcome to the new paradigm, Frank. Everybody&#039;s wives are &quot;fair game.&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome to the new paradigm, Frank. Everybody&#8217;s wives are &#8220;fair game.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jadegold</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2305</link>
		<dc:creator>Jadegold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2305</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I m sorry, but women who can t, or won t, take their husband s names are, IMHO, just being phony and trendy   and, man, do I hate phony and trendy&lt;/i&gt;

Spoken like a man who is separated from his wife.

In the end, this entire matter is sad.  It points up the fact there are people who will condone the betrayal of their country for short-term political gain.  I used to think it  unbelievable that folks like Robert Hanssen (a Novak pal, BTW), Aldrch Ames,  John Walker, etc. would sell out  ther own country for money.  But they did.

We&#039;re now seeng the GOP do likewise.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I m sorry, but women who can t, or won t, take their husband s names are, IMHO, just being phony and trendy   and, man, do I hate phony and trendy</i></p>
<p>Spoken like a man who is separated from his wife.</p>
<p>In the end, this entire matter is sad.  It points up the fact there are people who will condone the betrayal of their country for short-term political gain.  I used to think it  unbelievable that folks like Robert Hanssen (a Novak pal, BTW), Aldrch Ames,  John Walker, etc. would sell out  ther own country for money.  But they did.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re now seeng the GOP do likewise.</p>
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		<title>By: boadicea</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2304</link>
		<dc:creator>boadicea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2304</guid>
		<description>Just in case some of you all haven&#039;t  been over to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/18/3512/30654&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Daily Kos&lt;/a&gt;, Markos has an entry that really distills the issue.

While legalities are still to be settled after the prosecutor, Mr. Fitzgerald makes his case (I actually predict a pardon before any trial ensues because President Bush will want to protect himself from Nixonian exposure), the right and wrong of it is clear.

To quote a bit from Markos:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Given what we know of the case, we know that Rove violated his non-disclose agreement. We know that Rove acted unethically, without regard to the consequences of his actions. Whether a crime has been committed remains to be seen, but shouldn&#039;t matter a whit.

The technical letter of the law isn&#039;t a shield from accountability, an antidote to endangering national security, an amnesiac from the lies McClellan -- and by extension Bush and Co -- spewed to the American people two years ago.

Right-thinking people -- even Republicans -- should look at these unfolding events with horror. I would certainly feel betrayed and angry if a Democratic administration thusly endangered national security and undermined our non-proliferation efforts. I wouldn&#039;t make apologies for it. I wouldn&#039;t rationalize it, attempt to distract with irrelevant, tangential points. I would demand accountability.

But to modern-day Republicans and their apologists, they can do no wrong. No Republican&#039;s action is worthy of scorn or censure. They are perfect. Flawless. Immune to error. Godlike. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m sorry that you&#039;ve been caught up in that Frank. Because you serve neither your party nor your country by doing so. You don&#039;t even serve yourself.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just in case some of you all haven&#8217;t  been over to <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/18/3512/30654" rel="nofollow">Daily Kos</a>, Markos has an entry that really distills the issue.</p>
<p>While legalities are still to be settled after the prosecutor, Mr. Fitzgerald makes his case (I actually predict a pardon before any trial ensues because President Bush will want to protect himself from Nixonian exposure), the right and wrong of it is clear.</p>
<p>To quote a bit from Markos:</p>
<blockquote><p>Given what we know of the case, we know that Rove violated his non-disclose agreement. We know that Rove acted unethically, without regard to the consequences of his actions. Whether a crime has been committed remains to be seen, but shouldn&#8217;t matter a whit.</p>
<p>The technical letter of the law isn&#8217;t a shield from accountability, an antidote to endangering national security, an amnesiac from the lies McClellan &#8212; and by extension Bush and Co &#8212; spewed to the American people two years ago.</p>
<p>Right-thinking people &#8212; even Republicans &#8212; should look at these unfolding events with horror. I would certainly feel betrayed and angry if a Democratic administration thusly endangered national security and undermined our non-proliferation efforts. I wouldn&#8217;t make apologies for it. I wouldn&#8217;t rationalize it, attempt to distract with irrelevant, tangential points. I would demand accountability.</p>
<p>But to modern-day Republicans and their apologists, they can do no wrong. No Republican&#8217;s action is worthy of scorn or censure. They are perfect. Flawless. Immune to error. Godlike. </p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry that you&#8217;ve been caught up in that Frank. Because you serve neither your party nor your country by doing so. You don&#8217;t even serve yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank_D</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2303</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank_D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2303</guid>
		<description>JadeGold: Have you lost your mind? WTF are you talking about?

Who betrayed his country? Rove?

Are you kiddong?

All this pomposity and bombast will look mighty foolish, when the truth is told, the dust settles, and this is seen for the big nothing it really is.

And how in the world did my wife get into this?

You know, I&#039;m beginning to think that you &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; raised by wolves
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JadeGold: Have you lost your mind? WTF are you talking about?</p>
<p>Who betrayed his country? Rove?</p>
<p>Are you kiddong?</p>
<p>All this pomposity and bombast will look mighty foolish, when the truth is told, the dust settles, and this is seen for the big nothing it really is.</p>
<p>And how in the world did my wife get into this?</p>
<p>You know, I&#8217;m beginning to think that you <i>were</i> raised by wolves</p>
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		<title>By: boadicea</title>
		<link>http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/07/15/ap-lies/#comment-2302</link>
		<dc:creator>boadicea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://improveman.com/ow2008/?p=175#comment-2302</guid>
		<description>Frank, you still want to move the goal posts and declare victory.

So, let&#039;s imagine for a sec that FrankWorld is the RealWorld.

Let&#039;s imagine  for the moment that Wilson is all the things you&#039;ve claimed and that the outing of a CIA agent (and all the people who&#039;ve ever met or worked with her by extension) is no big deal to anybody but whiny left-wing pacifists.

These two things still would be true.

1. Karl Rove (and Scooter Libby, apparently) both did something they understood to be wrong.  Come on, you don&#039;t think that &quot;Joe Wilson&#039;s wife&quot; was specifically identifiable? How many wives do you have?

If they didn&#039;t understand it to be wrong when they did it, they certainly understood it to be wrong  when President Bush said he&#039;d fire the leaker if they were in his administration. (BTW, if what the hell good is a White House or Chief Executive that can&#039;t ferret out leaks from within the West Wing and Vice Presidential Suite?  As numerous people pointed out, President Nixon had figured out Deep Throat was Mark Felt, but thought it too dangerous to publically accuse him.  If the Bushies can&#039;t do better than that they&#039;re an active danger to the security of America without regard to any other actions.)

2.  Let&#039;s go back to that statement of President Bush&#039;s.  Karl Rove and Scooter Libby are still reporting for work when they&#039;ve been established as the leakers who were supposedly going to be fired.  Why are we still waiting for this good ol&#039; boy to understand that when you make a promise like that, people expect you to keep your word?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank, you still want to move the goal posts and declare victory.</p>
<p>So, let&#8217;s imagine for a sec that FrankWorld is the RealWorld.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s imagine  for the moment that Wilson is all the things you&#8217;ve claimed and that the outing of a CIA agent (and all the people who&#8217;ve ever met or worked with her by extension) is no big deal to anybody but whiny left-wing pacifists.</p>
<p>These two things still would be true.</p>
<p>1. Karl Rove (and Scooter Libby, apparently) both did something they understood to be wrong.  Come on, you don&#8217;t think that &#8220;Joe Wilson&#8217;s wife&#8221; was specifically identifiable? How many wives do you have?</p>
<p>If they didn&#8217;t understand it to be wrong when they did it, they certainly understood it to be wrong  when President Bush said he&#8217;d fire the leaker if they were in his administration. (BTW, if what the hell good is a White House or Chief Executive that can&#8217;t ferret out leaks from within the West Wing and Vice Presidential Suite?  As numerous people pointed out, President Nixon had figured out Deep Throat was Mark Felt, but thought it too dangerous to publically accuse him.  If the Bushies can&#8217;t do better than that they&#8217;re an active danger to the security of America without regard to any other actions.)</p>
<p>2.  Let&#8217;s go back to that statement of President Bush&#8217;s.  Karl Rove and Scooter Libby are still reporting for work when they&#8217;ve been established as the leakers who were supposedly going to be fired.  Why are we still waiting for this good ol&#8217; boy to understand that when you make a promise like that, people expect you to keep your word?</p>
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