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Ken Mehlman is going to sort-of apologize for the GOP’s “southern strategy”. That would make some sort of sense if the GOP’s major electoral strategy wasn’t the disenfranchisement of minority voters.
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Well, I’ll give him credit for actually showing up at the NAACP national convention. That’s something GWB hasn’t bothered to do since he became President.
If the GOP’s major electoral strategy is the disenfranchisement of minority votors, what does that make the DNC’s major electoral strategy: Outright Fraud?
Notice how Oliver can toss out a major hate bomb like that and then evidently feel no sense of shame about criticizing Rs for harsh rhetoric.
Dugger
How many Republicn black elected officials are currently serving across our nation right now, Dugger? Any state representatives, state senators? Why can’t Republicans bring themselves to vote for black people?
Maybe because, Dugger, the facts back up my so-called “hate bomb”.
There are no “facts”, Oliver. The Jusitce Dept. has investigated these charges numerous times and has come up with nothing.
Maybe, Dugger and others, we laugh at Mehlman’s statement because the Republicans still use this strategy today.
Oliver’s still pissed about some memo that looked like it was printed by a nine yr old on a Commodore 64 that said Democrats were supposed to vote on Wednesday, not Tuesday, during the last election.
pionar,
Then maybe not. Republicans believe in and advocate things that a substantial number of black voters do not. Republicans stick to their core beliefs, black voters to theirs. There are out of the mainstream examples on both sides that could be used for anedotal evidence of bad intentions on either side. If you are convinced in your heart Rs are evil racists you will ignore their good points and focus on the bad. Likwise you will ignore the Ds bads and see only the good. Human nature all the way. Whats out of whack is the wholesale attribution of evil (in the form of racism) to one political party or the other.
TomY,
How many blacks in key Democratic leadership positions? Top two in each house of Congress, last three Pres candidates, current party leader. All melanin challenged. If I were as crude as you I would ask why Democrats hate minorities? But I’m not so I will not speculate about the rampant racism in the Democratic party – that would be the party of ex-KKK member Byrd, a man who even after he quit the Klan, filibustered civil rights – but is still very popular in TODAY’s DemoKKKratic party.
Commissar Dugger, A BADDDD Man
Nice summary and execution, TomY, your comments are very well written and factual
So, the reason Republican voters are unable to elect any black people to any state or federal positions, is that Robert Byrd used to be in the KKK? Oh wait, it s not an answer at all, just a transparent attempt to weasel out of the question. Pathetic.
It was Southern conservatives who filibustered civil rights, Dugger. True, they were Democrats then, but once the Republicans made the anti-civil rights act Barry Goldwater their nominee, they showed Southern conservatives that they could be a better party of racial oppression than the Ds, and so the South flipped to the R column for the first time since the Democrats nominated a Catholic. And that’s how Republicans won the South. The amazing thing is that they utterly reversed 150 years of total party domination by the Democrats in the region in only 30 years. But that’s the power of racism for you. And the South remains, as it always has been, the part of the country where your race most determines your vote, where black and white are most starkly pitted against one another. And naturally, Dugger chooses the party of the white man, the party of Reagan’s Philadelphia, Mississippi states rights speech, and tells himself the lie that racism is just a myth propagated by Democrats for electoral gain. “Didn’t you know? The New South is free of racism, except when it’s practiced by demogogues like the NAACP.” Through the looking glass, indeed.
I just get exercised about it because in the context of the recent anti-lynching resolution, this southern strategy apology, etc., I’ve heard from a lot of Republicans about how Democrats are the real party of racism, and ignore Republican opportunism towards Southern conservative racists. The democratic party has a pretty awful history when it comes to race, of course, but being a Southerner, I get touchy when I see them get used to beat up on Democrats, when the real issue isn’t D vs. R in the South, but conservative vs. liberal.
But Reagan most certainly knew what he was doing in Philadelphia, MS. I don’t think he personally was a racist, but he knew he needed their votes. States rights was a perfect way to get the message across without having to explicitly appeal to them. Anyway I don’t think MS was a tossup in terms of presidential elections at that point. I’m pretty sure it had gone either Republican or Wallace every time since 1964. Where did I say that racism is only a Southern problem, or that white Democrats in Boston or Chicago or wherever can’t also be racists? Refer to my post above, please. Race and party are most linked in the South, the Republican party took advantage of it, and now the South is the base for the party, it’s strongest pillar. It’s no accident.
I misspoke above. Southerners didn’t vote Republican against Al Smith, they voted third party. They just didn’t support the Democrat.
Pretty stupid points, Tom. For one thing, Reagan gave that speech at a state fair that numerous politicos used to appear back when MS was still a toss-up state. Michael Dukakis appeared at the same thing eight years later. And states rights were a part of the speech, not the whole speech.
And speaking as someone who lives in a strong union town (Philly), i can tell you there are numerous outright bigots who vote Democrat because of their union, but are racists nonetheless.
And while i have no love for the South, you’re painting with a pretty broad brush, unless you think the fact that since it was white Democrats beating the hell out of black kids during the Boston Bussing riots in the 70′s, that makes it okay.
I know pointing out actual inconsistencies in another’s position is like throwing gasoline on a fire around here (according to Oliver, I suppose I now support arson), but I would point out that the linking of race and party being closely linked does not necessarily support your position. In nearly every statistical analysis of presidential voting, the black vote has been overwhelmingly Democrat, far in excess of any other break down among race/party affiliation.
TomY,
For someone who actually lives in the South, racism is alive in well with blacks, whites, asian etc. etc… I unfortunately battle this crap everyday, while Dugger is to offended to think that his party could be supporting these types of tatics. Just look at legislation. When I was in Alabama we couldn’t erase a clause in our consitution over inter-racial marriage! The Republican party convinced moderates(oh.. wait.. they don’t exist in the South) that it would spell increased taxation(? WTF!) and hook, line and sinker people bought that shit. In my profession I have to work with poor children who have to have shit schools because whites think they pay to many taxes(PLEASE!) and don’t want money going to them “thugs and crack whores”, so in turn, the black community is reactionary to whites by saying that they are racist or don’t trust them. Thank god my generation is making some changes, but I challenge Dugger or PSU to come to Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and see for themselves. I work too damn hard to hear crap like “Sen Byrd is a KKK..” SFW! Stop pointing to a particular idiot and look at the bigger problem.
It’s true that blacks almost always vote democrat. But whites are usually split. Not in the South, though. White voters in the South vote far more monolithically than do white voters in the rest of the country (58-41 nationally). For 2004, here are Bush s top states for the greatest victory margin among white voters. All Southern states. The percentage indicates the percentage of black residents in the state. Notice how the more black voters there are, the greater the Bush margin among whites. And I got this from a blog, so it s not an original observation on my part.
Mississippi – 85-14 (34%)
Alabama – 80-19 (25%)
South Carolina – 78-22 (30%)
Georgia – 76-23 (25%)
Louisiana – 75-24 (27%)
North Carolina – 73-27 (26%)
Texas – 72-16 (12%)
Virginia – 68-32 (21%)
Tennessee – 65-34 (12%)
Kentucky – 64-35 (8%)
Arkansas – 63-36 (15%)
Florida – 57-42 (12%)
Nationally – 58-41 (13%)
I don t see how you explain this except with race. Note that I don t think all southern conservatives or republicans are racist, just that if you are a southern racist, you are almost certainly going to vote with the party that promises not to give your hard earned money away to welfare moms and inner city schools, rather than the party of Jesse Jackson. That s the Southern strategy: speak in coded language to the racists, and never explicitly bring up the subject of race, even though it’s clearly the region of the country most in need of discussing it. That s in contrast to Democrats, who are more likely to make you feel guilty, or worse responsible for it, even to the point of enacting social programs taxes again! Moderate white republicans, because their party never actually discusses race, get to believe that they must not be the party of racists, blacks who are suspicious of the GOP get called paranoid, and actual racists get a basically de facto segregated school system, neighborhoods, cities, etc., that never really goes questioned. It s really quite brilliant.
“True, they were Democrats then”
Alert, TomY! Alert! Take Cover! Incoming lightening bolt. Sen Byrd is still a Democrat; repeat still a Democrat.
BTW, you didn’t say why there are no blacks in key Democratic leadership positions. Why would that be? I suggest you check out what Kweisi M’fume has been saying recently.
I look at the Democratic party leadership and see no minorities. I look at the Bush cabinet and see many more.
That was the evil alternate – universe, goateed Dugger talking. I really don’t believe the Democratic party is racist. Nor the Republican Party. Merely demonstrating how the morally smug and intellectually dishonest can irresponsibly twist random bits of data into erroneous, nasty conclusions.
Dugger, Non Acknowledged Brother of those Loveable Doublemint Trips
“I really don t believe the Democratic party is racist.”
Good, then we’ll both ignore what you wrote, because it’s just stupid to compare some black appointees (which are great, by the way) to black elected officials. I didn’t say the GOP is racist. I mean to say that it made a deal with racists, who now are a substantial part of their base in the South. The deal was this: “We won’t discuss race except in very coded indirect ways, and in return you vote for us and can have your defacto segregation in the South.” I most certainly think that Southern conservatives are responsible for racism in a way that national conservatives aren’t. I think the Civil RIghts movement represents the clearest moral victory of liberalism over conservatism that this country of the last 100 years. And I think any Southern conservative who tries to turn the civil rights struggle into D vs. R, rather than what it should be, liberal vs. conservative, is lying about history.
Nothing to say about what I wrote above, I see. Typical Dugger, more interested in snark than substance. But you got your evil Spock reference in! And that’s what makes you the troll every liberal loves to hate!
For them it is becoming very apparent that saying crap like that is what makes this problem go away. Passing the buck. TomY, thank you for putting up those statistics.
No prob, but again, I can’t take credit. I was curious about the white vote’s margins in Alabama anyway, and came across that listing.
TomY,
All of those posts and still no explanation of the Democratic leadership problem. Why no minorities? Surely you can dash off a quick answer to that one. The cyber silence is getting a little embarrasssing. America wants to know!
And White Whale, I betcha I have been in the south longer than you and, if you had read, I said both parties have rotten apples, including some in the south. My objection is the wholesale smear of large group of people. When I see that, I expect such a hateful, drastic attitude to be supported wiith specifics. Which prominent Republican leader is racist? Bush, Cheney, Condi Rice, Colin Powell? How many others? Documentation? After all, it is alleged here that the electoral goal of the Republican Party is the wholesale disenfranchisement of minorities. Thats funny. I’ve been a Republican since 1968, gone to meetings etc and never once heard about the grand disenfranchisement strategy.
Dugger
You explained yourself that the Democratic leadership problem was not indicative of racial bias, and I agreed. What is there to argue about?
No one’s saying that Republican leaders are segregationists; just that they depend on the votes of racists for their margins in the South. So in ’68 you weren’t a Wallace supporter, Dugger? I find that hard to believe. Was your family from the South or were you carpetbaggers?
It really does boil down to “Robert Byrd is in the KKK so and Al Sharpton is a racist so shut up about it!”
I’d forgotten about the “you can’t remove the ban on interracial marriage b/c your taxes will go up” thing. Everyone who truly loves the South should be ashamed.
Dugger,
Can we count the amount of Blacks in the House and or Senate? We are not currently in power! I would love to see more blacks in power and Democrats can do a MUCH better job, but again you just don’t want to deal with the problem, only the fact that “Republican” was mentioned. Not to slam your age, but I am also talking about the here and now. I still live in the South and still see this problem. Smearing racists? Racism is about the most dispicable thing on the planet, so if I am offending racists than oh well. I know you don’t want me to mention good ole’ Jesse Helms or Trent Lott or Karl Rove etc… but I am more concerned with what TomY was getting at: racist legislation and divisive race practices. My Alabama case is a perfect example. Sure the legislator didn’t say “Don’t vote for this amendment because we don’t want coons marrying our pure white women” but shit like this clearly divides the people of a state over race issues. And unlike you, I have been to college recently and this crap is more rampant than you think. At the U of A (Roll Tide) even college kids are eating this shit from thier parents. I thought open minds are welcomed in a learning enviroment but obviously not.
WW,
In case you didn’t know, members are elected by the people to the House and Senate. The ratio of minorities, then, in Congress is a function of democratic principals – not one party or the other’s atavistic impulses. Actually I think gerrymandering has affected the racial make-up of Congress also. I have lived in the south (presently Atlanta ) all my life except when Uncle Sam sent me elsewhere, and I don’t see what you and the excitable TomY see. Put two kids thru college not long ago. Yes I see some racism (actually on both sides – there are court cases here in Atlanta that have been won by whites against black officials), but it is no where near as deep (to me) as you guys make it out – on either side. And I’ll say again, I have never encountered racism in the party structure – and personally wouldn’t tolerate it if I did (I know that sounds preachy) . If you argue that certain programs the party supports are not favored by a majority of minorities, I would agree, but in no way do I believe that constitutues racism or, necesssarily, anything wrong at all. Its called “democracy” with freedom of thought.
Dugger,
Well, Living in Atlanta(where I am at right now also) is also the most liberal place in the entire South, which is not saying much at all. I would ask where you sent your children to college, but you don’t have to(I don’t want to be intrusive). Again this is not an argument that a certian party tailors legislation specifically for racist reasons but rather the South is divided from white and blacks and plays off their racism. Again look to the failure to amend the Alabama constitution.
Dubya Dubya,
Actually, if you are talking the city of Atlanta, you are right – it is liberal, but if you are talking metro Atlanta – another story. Metro Atlanta has graced the world with Bob Barr and Newt Gingrich (and, well, Cynthia McKinney). North Atlanta is solidly conservative Republican. Sen Isaakson is from these parts. I don’t know about the Alabama constitution issue – but I won’t challenge your take on it. I could easily cite the current Clayton County sheriff fiasco and or the Fulton County library fiasco as a counter anecdotal arguments. So I say there are a few bad apples and a few bad incidents here and there, but my life experience has been that racists come in all colors and from all places. And the fact that blacks vote by a much larger percentage for Ds does not mean Rs are racist or even wrong (or right). BTW, the worst racist I ahve ever met in my lifetime was a white Air National Guardsman (FANG) from upstate New York.
Dugger