In the wake of 9/11, the most knuckle-dragging amongst us sought to round up all the “A-rabs” and anyone who even looked remotely “a-rab” in order to somehow paint with broad brushes and implicate them in the attacks. As much as I disdain George W. Bush and practically everything he stands for, I will give him kudos for stating – again, and again, and again – that the war on terror is not a war on the Islamic faith.
But some people want their holy war, and apparently Jeff Jarvis is one of them.
It amazes me that these idiots feel the need to condemn everyone but the folks who are in control and have allowed terrorism to fester. Jarvis & Co. line up behind the war in Iraq and turn a blind eye to the fact that we are no safer today than we were on 9/11 (does anyone think London has that much less of a defense setup than New York, Los Angeles, or Washington?), but drop everything they’re doing to slam the Muslims who “won’t condemn” terrorism.
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“As much as I disdain George W. Bush and practically everything he stands for, I will give him kudos for stating – again, and again, and again – that the war on terror is not a war on the Islamic faith.”
And you seriously believe this? I’m sorry, but I do not. He says this because he simply HAS to. I suppose you can give him a little credit for this, but not very much.
Wow. I think you’re overreacting, Odub. Nothing Jarvis says in this post or quotes Friedman as writing comes close to calling for a Holy War. The nutcase Freepers and Footballers might be calling for that, but all Jarvis is pointing out is that the Muslim world should be courageous enough to slap down their own extremists.
Speaking as a member of the Muslim community, if not necessarily of the Muslim faith, I couldn’t agree more. When you attack Muslims with weapons, it turns moderates into extremists and extremists into blind fury. When the West attacks Muslims with words and attempts to persuade them that “our way is right, your way is backward,” it does more or less the same.
Muslims themselves should be going after their own worst elements. They, after all, know that the best way to defuse them is to point out that these terrorists aren’t, in fact, Muslims at all…and they have the authority to back up such statements by themselves living the correct way of Islam.
I don’t think it’s calling for Holy War, just for internal housecleaning. It’s calling for the same thing us on the left are asking for when we demand Karl Rove’s and Tom DeLay’s resignations–we just want the system to reject its bad apples.
I think you are going way over the top, Oliver, in describing Jarvis as “giving into hate”. To quote from one of the passages you linked:
“What’s wrong with looking for condemnation from the Muslim world? What’s wrong with looking to see demonstrations against Muslim terrorism by the vast majority of Muslims in the Muslim world just like the demonstrations against an American war held by Americans in America?”
What, indeed, is wrong with those statements, and how can you possibly see them as hateful?
You should have heard that sun-gazing mouth-breather Jay Severin on the radio yesterday.
This guy was so blatantly slathering on the appeal to emotion, it was disgusting. No reason, no wisdom, no solutions. Just raw vitriol.
His response to this animalistic behavior, was to act like an animal himself. Using the imagery of orphaned children, as if he can speak for the families of the dead. I get sick to my stomach picturing all the nodding dittoheads on the other end of the radiowaves who think it’s perfectly fine to co-opt the deceased and presume to speak their mind. If I was killed in a terrorist attack, the last person I’d want speaking for me was one of these yellow-bellied elephants.
They spread nothing but hate, much like the terrorists we are trying to stop.
He merely called for the Muslims to do something about the hate/violence in their own society. As did Tom Friedman. How do you get “hate” from that?
Dugger
I think that it is a perfectly reasonable request to clean house as BD puts it…
BD – I appreciate your thoughtful comments – thanks…
When Santorum made his stupid Nazi statement about Democrats during the filibuster deal, you (Oliver) went around to all sorts of right-leaning blogs looking for someone to “condemn” him. You called on every blog to the right of Atrios to condemn him.
I think it’s pretty absurd myself that before the blood in London had even dried, people were worrying more about Muslims condemning the act, particularly considering that, despite those claiming responsibility, we weren’t POSITVE that Muslims had done it, but cripes, pot meet kettle, or doctor heal thyself, or if you live in a glass house.
I tend to think that faith–that true, beautiful faith–is a powerful thing that can only be handled by the most steadfast and strong of mind and will.
Everybody else who touches it just goes crazy.
So, tell me, is terrorism a hate crime? And if it is, should it receive stronger condemnation?
The rise of radical Islam can be partially blamed on the moderate Imams who failed to speak up and stand up against the poison of using religion to justify hatred, death and terror when they had a chance.
Unfortunately, I have the same opinion about moderate Protestant religious leaders who, by remaining silent, have allowed radical evangelicals to coopt and twist the teachngs of Jesus until they are unrecognizeable.
Look around the world, brothers and sisters. In every part of the world, religion fosters violence…Sri Lanka, Thailand, Indonesia, Yugoslavia, India, etc, etc…The only countries that seem to be not killing people are secular humanist or athiest. Is there a lesson here?
Joe Schnoe said;
“Unfortunately, I have the same opinion about moderate Protestant religious leaders who, by remaining silent, have allowed radical evangelicals to coopt and twist the teachngs of Jesus until they are unrecognizeable.”
Do you seriously think that radical Evangelicals pose anything like the threat posed by radical Islamics? How many terrorist attacks have been carried out in the name of Jesus compared to those carried out in the name of Allah?
If Jesus-freaks start flying planes into scyscrapers, suicide-bombing discos and buses or declaring holy war against modernity, I will be among the first to demand that mainstream Protestant religious leaders condemn the attacks. But right now, the threat comes overwhelmingly from Islamic fanatics. It would be nice to see the Muslim community play a more active role in condemning the radical cancer within their own faith.
“Look around the world, brothers and sisters. In every part of the world, religion fosters violence& Sri Lanka, Thailand, Indonesia, Yugoslavia, India, etc, etc& The only countries that seem to be not killing people are secular humanist or athiest. Is there a lesson here?”
Yes. The lesson is that the lessons of history are soon forgotten.
In case you have forgotten, Communists ( athiests to the core) were responsible for the murder of over 100 million souls in the last century.
Violence is endemic in the human condition – don’t try to fob it off on religion. Ideology can be just as poisionous.
Jarvis is a rube. Like most rubes, their vision is confined to what they see within their own little world. He doesn’t see American Muslims shouting the praises of AWOL George, so he assumes all Muslims are indifferent or supportive of these terrorist attacks.
By rube logic”!, we should condemn Christianity or Catholicism whenever one of their fringe groups blows up a building or shoots a doctor.
But if Jarvis weren’t such a rube, he might look at the newspapers of nations that are predominantly Muslim and he’d see clerics and leaders roundly condemning the attacks.
Moreover, if Jarvis weren’t such a rube, he’d understand the particular extremist fringe group responsible for these acts of violence largely come from a country we coddle and overlook the excesses of the regime.
Scott..the holy war has already begun in America with an evangelical jihad against evolutionary science, using creationism to justify ending research on everything that would contradict Genesis. THe Jihad continues against birth control, AIDs research, stem cell research, gay marriage and on and on.
WHen the revolution started in IRan, it began as an attack against secular humanism, particularly against modern culture. WHen movie houses continued showing movies disapproved by Imams, radicals held the doors shut while true believers set the buildings on fire.
Even though Hollywood has produced many REpublican office holders, the Evangelicals still rail against Hollywood as the proponent of unapproved popular culturet.
Attacks on Doctors, nurses engaged in family plannning and so on….are already underway, crackpot christians interrupting funerals of people they disapprove. JUst because the media does not fully cover it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
Ideology and religion are, for practical consideratin, the same thing, different name. Whether the worship of a God or a worship of Stalin or Lenin or Marx or Mao, its the same damn thing. It is just that religious people wrap their insanity in a holy veil, all the Marxist can do is delude millions with obscure abstractions.