The Republican propaganda machine is now running on full anti-Durbin blast, demanding an apology and condemnation from Democrats.
Don’t give in.
The media wants Dems to be cowed, and it helps the Republicans to have yet another cave-in from the left. Don’t give them the satisfaction. We’ve tried the appeasement stance. It doesn’t work.
As a side note:
Now that Durbin had to apologize for his statement regarding GITMO torture style similarities being spun by the usual suspects do you think the Bush cabal is man enough to apologize for making him apologize?
If nothing more the White House can proudly say: We do unto ourselves what we’ve done to them — instead of whining that there is “no abuse at GITMO”
U.S. military policeman who was beaten by fellow MPs during a botched training drill at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, prison for detainees has sued the Pentagon for $15 million, alleging that the incident violated his constitutional rights.
Baker said he had put on the jumpsuit and squeezed under a prison bunk after being told by a lieutenant that he would be portraying an unruly detainee. He said he was assured that MPs conducting the “extraction drill” knew it was a training exercise and that Baker was an American soldier.
As he was being choked and beaten, Baker said, he screamed a code word, “red,” and shouted: “I’m a U.S. soldier! I’m a U.S. soldier!” The beating continued, he said, until the jumpsuit was yanked down during the struggle, revealing his military uniform.
……officials conceded that he had been treated for injuries suffered when a five-man MP “internal reaction force” choked him, slammed his head several times against a concrete floor and sprayed him with pepper gas.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/18/MNG18DAM6S1.DTL
Link
Hypocrisy abounds with the following:
senior Republicans including Chairman of the Republican National Committee Ken Mehlman have not apologized, and have in fact defended, comparisons of Democrats to Nazis in the past.
Last June, then-Bush campaign manager Mehlman defended an ad that contained footage of Adolf Hitler interspersed with images of Democratic leaders Al Gore, Dick Gephart and John Kerry. The campaign defended the images, saying they were taken from a video on MoveOn.org.
Mehlman said it was used “to show the depths to which these Kerry supporters will sink to win.” The video was later removed.
Mehlman is not alone. A raft of Republicans in Congress have invoked Hitler and Nazism on issues from stem cell research, to abortion, to taxes and the environment.
White House confidante Grover Norquist, known for his blistering attacks on U.S. taxes, likened the estate tax to the morality of the Holocaust in October 2003.
“The argument that some who play to the politics of hate and envy and class division will say is, ‘Well, that’s only 2 percent — or, as people get richer, 5 percent, in the near future — of Americans likely to have to pay [the estate tax], he told NPR. I mean, that’s the morality of the Holocaust: ‘Oh, it’s only a small percentage. It’s not you; it’s somebody else.
After being criticized for his remarks, Norquist expanded them in 2004 to include Democrats.
“The Nazis were for gun control, the Nazis were for high marginal tax rates…. Do you want to talk about who’s closer politically to national socialism, the Right or the Left?” he told the Jewish newspaper The Forward. He also “told the Forward that he would not hesitate to use Holocaust comparisons in the future.”
A Republican senator invoked Nazism when criticizing stem cell research last year.
“We certainly have all seen the rejections of Nazi Germany’s abuses of science, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) declared regarding his opposition to stem cell research last October. As a society and a nation, there ought to be some limit on what we can allow or should allow.”
In response to a ruling on abortion last September, Congressman Steve King said following law on reproductive rights equivalent to a Nazi guard saying he was following orders.
That, Mr. Speaker, is a modern-day equivalent of the Nazi prison guard saying ‘I was just following orders, he said on the House floor Sept. 8, 2004. It was all legal in Nazi Germany at the time.
Another senator even compared the Kyoto climate treaty to Nazism, repeating a quotation from a Russian official.
Sen. James Inhofe said Oct. 11, 2004 that Kyoto “would deal a powerful blow on the whole humanity similar to the one humanity experienced when Nazism and communism flourished.”
The Oklahoma Republican added, “The world has certainly turned on its head that we Americans must look to Russians for speaking out strongly against irrational authoritarian ideologies.”
Sen. Tom Cole (R-OK) dragged out Hitler to hit Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.
“Cole Claims a Vote Against Bush Is a Vote For Hitler,” KTOK radio in Oklahoma blared last year.
“Republican Congressman Tom Cole claims a vote against the re-election of President Bush is like supporting Adolph Hitler during World War Two, the station reported. It’s what he said recently before a meeting of Canadian County Republicans.”
Cole later codified his statement, saying through a spokesperson: “What do you think Hitler would have thought if Roosevelt would’ve lost the election in 1944?
Others, too, have likened Democratic policy to Nazism. Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) compared a Democratic tax plan to Nazi law in 2002.
“Now, forgive me, but that is right out of Nazi Germany, Gramm said. I don’t understand … why all of a sudden we are passing laws that sound as if they are right out of Nazi Germany.”
And just last month, Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) compared Democrats with Adolf Hitler during the filibuster battle.
I really don’t see what there is be sorry about…
Should he be sorry for his concern with the way our country is being led?
uh…no…
Hypocrite.
By all means Durbie, do not apologize. American soldiers = Pol Pot and Nazis.
Democrats stand by your man! American soldiers are the same as Nazis! Thats the Democratic message. Hodeans concurs 100%. I suspect he “hates” them anyway as a large number of them are the wrong color and the wrong religion (they all look alike anyway). Who wouldn’t want to vote for such a fine group!
Democratic priorities:
1. Get Bush
2. Get Bush
3. Win the war on terror in a way that doesn’t offend Euro-sensibilities.
Dugger
All that Durbin said was that the abuses are un-American, inconsistent with our values. That is completely true, and it needs to be said, loudly. And you know what else? It’s EXACTLY what Bush himself said. See http://tinyurl.com/cuta3 for links.
Instead of apologizing, Durbin needs to say: In my statement, I agree with Bush that this abuse is inconsistent with American values and must be eliminated by forceful action by our leaders. Unfortunately, so for leadership in this area has lagged far behind the rhetoric.
It seems clear to me what he meant, why is it so difficult for some of you? He read something about a horrific case of abuse and made the statement that we are better than that, that you would expect this behavior from those that are Evil, not those that are Good. That we should have a higher standard than those that we fight – that there is another option and that it is the high road. If you can’t see that this is a criticism of our administration and not of the soldiers – then you are only looking through your filter after you drink the Kool-aid. Try to see with an open mind and not an automatic reaction.
Zappa,
He read an uncorroborated allegation from a single agent. May of may not have been true. His remarks:
“If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime–Pol Pot or others–that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.”
What the agent alleges was done, encapsulated: loud music, poor or no ac/heat, the detainee had messed himself, detainee had pulled out some of his hair, detainee chained (but able to pull out his hair evidently).
Now Durbs would have us believe that this is equal to what was done by Pol Pot, Nazis, Stalin. You buying that? Our soldiers? The ones in control at Gitmo? The ones that die for you and I? Do I need to tell you how many Pol Pot, Uncle Joe and Shicklegruber murdered and some of the unbearable tortures people went through under them. Loud music? No a/c? Have you seen the pictures of the concentration camps? Those people were starved. Gitmo prisoners are putting on weight by all accounts. I know Democratic solidarity is important to you folks, but face it, he went way overboard, smeared the hell out of our military (Durbin himself evidently did not serve) and needs to sanctioned by the party.
Dugger
I can see the light! He is totally wrong for commenting on something that is going on in American Detention Centers.
It has nothing to do with policy makers, it has nothing to do with creating more hostility towards our soldiers with our treatment of prisoners, it has nothing to do with us attacking a non threatening (albiet evil) dicator.
I don’t support torture, I think that if we continue torturing and shipping off detainee’s to be tortured we are selling our soul as a great nation.
I blame the administration and the pentagon.
The right blames the messanger. IF Durbin did not talk about this, then no one would know. That is why we have to supress the press, supress freedom of speech, surpress the opposition. ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING! Wake up dugger…you should have taken the red pill…
Eco,
OK I believe there were excesses at Abu. I have seen no similar documented instances at Gitmo. If you want to argue that some of the treatment (if true) theoretically documented by this FBI agent was unwise, or MAYBE incorrect, I might not disagree. But it is scarcely torture and certainly not worthy of smearing our military. Considering these guys are in effect unlawful combatants, please tell me specifically something credible that we have done to them at Gitmo that constitues true torture.
Dugger
Look, Dugger:
I agree with you that we are better than Nazi’s, better than Pol Pot. Way, way better. No comparison. Fine.
But that’s not the issue. The issue is that what is going on (as Bush himself has admitted when on the spot) is not acceptable. THIS IS NOT AMERICA.
The leadership has failed the troops by allowing this to happen — in Abu Ghraib, in Gitmo, at Bagram air base, at detention facilities all over the place. The moral failings of WH and Pentagon leadership have led to a disaster in the form of widespread detainee abuse and torture, documented by AI, the Red Cross, the Taguba report, lawyers, soldiers. journalists, the whole bit.
Let’s not quibble over words. What has happened here is a tragedy for our country. We love our country for the values it represents. What is happening is a threat to those values. All who love this country must stand up and call for an end to the abuse.
Omar is hardly an impartial source. Do we ask prison inmates if they are innocent? Been treated well? I would rather have your take as to something documented by third parties – not by third parties like AI who are repeating what inmates tell them – inmates who have been trained to allege abuse.
I point out again that the implication even of the FBI agent’s report is that they have A/C and the reports are that they are gaining weight.
Dugger
I’m afraid that there are lots and lots of allegations of that nature. Here’s an example taken up by Amnesty International, of a guy who claims he’s been sprayed with pepper spray and poked in the eye at Gitmo badly enough to blind him:
http://tinyurl.com/882×2
Allegations like this are neither proven nor disproven, but that’s part of the problem: We need more transparency, we need human-rights observers and lawyers to be able to get in there regularly to examine these guys and remove all doubt. The Red Cross (which has said it gets very little access to gitmo) summarized its findings to the US last year:
http://tinyurl.com/dksz5
They said the whole system of physical abuse was ‘tantamount’ to torture. To me, that word ‘tantamount’ is not a whole lot of comfort. It’s not good enough.
Perhaps the most disturbing case is this guy’s:
http://tinyurl.com/eyhtn
It’s one of our own soldiers, assigned to play the role of an ‘uncooperative’ detainee, just savagely beaten with permanent brain damage. The interrogators didn’t know he was a US soldier until he screamed that at them repeatedly. They thought he was just another inmate. This makes me wonder what goes on with a regular inmate.
I am no dove. We need to protect ourselves. I also agree with you that anyone who comments on this stuff needs to make it crystal clear that he’s not trashing our troops; if there is fault, it is with the leadership. (I am just stunned by the sacrifices our troops are making.) But this isn’t the way to fight a war. I’m a citizen who wants to feel secure, AND to feel proud of my country. This stuff makes me angry on both counts.
(I’d also like to say that it’s refreshing to have something like a real conversation about all this, rather than just people who agree with each other agreeing about how lousy all the guys on the other side are.)
What the heck — something *very* strange happened with the first of my links. I’ll try again:
http://tinyurl.com/db5rs
It’s the case of Omar Deghayes, as relayed by AI.
That’s all valid, but it also speaks to this problem of access and transparency. We wouldn’t be having the discussion of who to believe if our system was properly open.
This Human Rights Watch report rounds up a LOT of detainee allegations, but also makes the point about the secrecy and lack of access very forcefully:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/usa0604/3.htm#_Toc74483696
That’s been a big issue all along. Part of this is a perception problem, of course: We seem awfully guilty to the world if we keep the human rights monitors away.
But how about the soldier suing the Pentagon? The guy’s brain damage is pretty clearly not a fantasy? I find that one of the scariest stories I’ve ever heard.
And AC doesn’t really count if it’s used as a weapon.
I do agree that we always need to consider the source, and there’s no one more biased than a prisoner describing his own treatment, but there are big problems here that are not just a detainee’s BS.