Dick Cheney’s Convenient Memory Strikes Again
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Commenting on what Dick Durbin said about allegations of abuse at Gitmo, Dick Cheney supposedly claimed
The Vice President noted that he had to be “careful about what I say since this is a family show” but that the “comparison is one of the more egregious things I’ve heard on the floor of the U.S. Senate.”
Really? You mean it wouldn’t be the vice president (Dick Cheney) telling a U.S. senator to go “fuck yourself” on the floor of the senate?
Some people would say Dick Cheney is full of excrement. I would be one of those people.
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Cheney apologized for the language he used in voicing his opinion.
And in light of Senator Durbin’s remarks, I find it fascinating how you’re more fixated with something Dick Cheney said several months ago than you are with Dick Durbin’s ridiculous comparison of Gitmo to Pol Pot, the Soviet Union, and the Nazis.
Are you so much of a partisan hack that it’s beneath you to condemn the politicians in your own party when they make such ridiculous comparisons?
Good Gawd Oliver.
A couple of differences (as if you didn’t know – talking about toeing the party line; you’re toeing it right into Durbin’s rectum):
Cheney’s single expletive was uttered off the Senate floor.
Durbin’s tirade was delivered on the senate floor to be inserted into the Congressional Record.
Cheney’s single remark was aimed at an individual.
Durbin’s tirade was aimed at all the servicemen and women serving at the Gitmo prison.
Leahy didn’t ask for an apology.
Many Senators have said Durbin should apologize.
Last, but not least, Cheney’s first name is Richard.
Durbin is a dick.
Are you so much of a partisan hack, Brandon, that it’s beneath you to attack the policy of torture that made Durbin’s remarks necessary?
You are marching the party line in lockstep, blame the people speaking of the atrocities, not the atrocities themselves.
Are you surprised neoconsr?
There is zero chance that they even care about the torture or that we could ever be in the wrong.
Support your Country always and forever – support your Govt. by keepin’ them honest.
Cheney never apologized. And I refuse to condemn the right’s tortured misappropriation of what Sen. Durbin said.
To say that Senator Durbin’s remarks (were) “aimed at all the servicemen and women serving at the Gitmo prison” is one of the most idiotic statements I have read in a long time. Using that logic I suppose it could be said that Frank_D condones and promotes torture of innocent civilians simply for torture’s sake.
No I’m not surprised- this is their MO
-When Joe Wilson testified about the forged memos, he was smeared- his facts were never challenged.
-When Paul O’Neill talked about Iraq being the ONLY focus of the president, he was smeared- his facts were never challenged
-When Dan Rather exposed to the country Bush’s AWOL, he was smeared- his facts were never challenged
-When Dick Clarke testified that the Bush administration didn’t care about terrorism, and lost interest quickly in OBL, he was smeared, his facts were never challenged
I don’t consider what’s going on at Gitmo to be institutionalized torture. There may be a few instances where interregators may have crossed the line. But forcing detainees to listen to Christina Aguilera music, using sleep deprevation techniques, denying them bathroom breaks so they have to piss in their pants, turning off the AC in their cell, etc. is not tantamount to torture.
Especially when you consider these pics of some of Saddam’s torture and murder victims. Pol Pot, the Nazis, and the Soviets were responsible for the deaths of millions of people. I apologize if I can’t make the connection between that and Gitmo that you libs seem intent on making.
The memos were fake. What facts were there to consider, dumbass?
Because his credibility went to shit when his resignation letter was revealed. Let’s say it didn’t quite jive with what he was saying in those congressional hearings.
It’s the credibility issue, stupid.
Brandon,
I wonder if you would be crowing so loud about what isn’t torture if you had experienced a few of the things that you don’t think are torture.
Using the worst case scenarios of regimes that used torture to minimize what this country has done is kinda like experiencing a car wreck which leaves you with two broken legs and a flailed chest, and then having someone tell you that it wasn’t that bad because your car didn’t blow up and catch fire.
Think about it, Brandon.
Really? You mean you wouldn’t say he was full of shit?
History will show this as another black mark on America. That is the legacy you leave to your children.
In 1944 Roosevelt had a few choices. We could execute all of the Nazi war criminals. Or, we could have an open and fair trial for the world to see. Churchill wanted to execute. Stalin said “In the Soviet Union, we never execute anyone without a trial.” Churchill agreed and because of that we had Nuremberg.
Th world got to see our ideals in action. They saw that they weren’t just empty rhetoric. Were the Nazis worse than the terrorists are today? I would call them equal.
“Think about it, Brandon.”
No, it’s easier for him to just use ad hominum attacks. He did a very good job proving my point, when the truth is too painful, attack the messenger. His masters have taught him well.
Oh, BTW noone has proven that the Rather memos are fake, and noone has ever disputed that the gist of the memo is true. Why is it the Garry Trudeau’s reward for ONE person to come forward that knew GW in Alabama unclaimed?
As far as the “resignation letter”, you are obviously either very young or have never had a real job that you might resign from with a letter. When you resign in writing, you never say bad things about the employer. 98% are boilerplate “Thank you for the opportunity, it was an honor”. I also notice that nowhere in that letter did Clarke praise of Bush’s handling of terrorism.
It was a “feel good” letter. You know, just like the note that Bush sent to Clarke praising his work.
Go on believing that Dick Clarke has no credibility. 3,000 victims of 9/11 would differ.
Another question for the torture apologists- if a US soldier (not a KBR mercenary, fuck them) was treated like the Gitmo prisoners, would you be upset? Would it be torture then?
Dave M:
Apparently, he knows something you don’t, but I do: What he meant. That’s why he’s apologizing for it.
Frank_D
Once again you misread and misinterpret remarks made, this time by me which of course was the point I was making in the first instance. But I expected that. Senator Durbin’s remarks spoke to what has been occurring under American watch and command and in which Americans have unfortunately participated. Is that something you dispute? Nothing in Durbin’s original statement that I read would allow for any interpretation that ALL U.S. soldiers at our facilities have engaged in this. (Where do you read that? I don’t see anything in your rebuttal remarks that would allow for this interpretation or any interpretation other than the simple fact that American participation is a black mark against our country.) Yes, I read a lot of idiotic statements daily unfortunately. Your interpretation was only one of them. The real point which you conveniently ignore is that if (and I say if) our soldiers have been tainted by what has occurred it is because of the activity of those who have used and justified torture. Not as a result of what Senator Durbin says now. There has been a significant controversy as to whether the present administration sanctions, condones and even promotes such activity if not by Americans themselves then by shipping detainees to places where they are tortured by others. Your comment mirrors a common tactic used by the right – destroy the messenger of bad news by any means. Misinterpret whatever is said; ignore the context; ignore the evidence and attack to advance the cause of obsfucation.
Did I misinterpret your remarks? Yes I did – intentionally. Really I thought that was clear. Of course you didn’t say in your original comments that you actually condone torture. But as I said using the same (il)logic that you employed to attack Senator Durbin I could say that and misinterpret your comments in the way I described.
Finally, Senator Durbin’s clarification of course was done because of his use of the comparison of torture tactics to those used by nazis. It wasn’t done for any reason that you advance. Nor was any clarification or apology demanded for any reason you advance because quite simply your interpretation is such a gross misinterpretation of what Durbin said that no serious person would advance such an argument. Again you misread, misinterpret and misuse Durbin’s comment, “I have learned from my statement THAT HISTORICAL PARALLELS CAN BE MISUSED AND MISINTERPRETED…”
As far as knowing something that I don’t – I’m sure Senator Durbin does and I’m sure he knows a lot more than you about this subject as well.
So you’re one of Kos’ Kids I take it.
That tells me all I need to know.
Dave M. I don’t know what you’re talking about, but apparently enough you think it’s important.
Durbin was, and is, a schmuck. He shouldn’t have said what he said. It was wrong for him to do so.
You’d have to piss on a lot of Qu’urans to approach the horror of Pol Pot’s Cambodia, or Hitler’s Auschwitz, or Stalin’s Ukraine.
End of story.
They’re helping to rebuild Iraq. Heaven forbid they get paid for such hazardous work. Not that that line of reasoning will resonate inside your tinfoil hat.
Our soldiers aren’t systematically engaged in the same kind of genocidal goal that the Islamofascists in Gitmo were fighting for everyday before they were captured and incarcerated.
Therefore, your analogy doesn’t fit.
Furthermore, your question shows an ignorance of how the rules of the Geneva Convention are carried out.
But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good trap question?
What genocidal goal was that?
Mercenaries are not bound by normal rules of war. They are getting our soldiers killed. So to hell with them, they don’t believe in any cause, they believe in $$$$.
So, now you can answer the question, if a US soldier was treated like the Gitmo prisoners, would you be upset? Would it be torture then? Funny how you cons have a hard time answering a direct question. Why?
Frank_D
Great rejoinder! Not a single logical point made. But it’s what I have come to expect from the right.
End of story.
“Islamofascists”? What, is that Rush’s new word this week? When you stop living in the cartoon world of absolute good and absolute evil and start living in the real world, please come back.
Perhaps he could benefit from this:
http://www.drjimchan.com/colon_therapy.htm
Mercenaries are not bound by normal rules of war.
Neither are non-uniformed combatants who’ve been captured on the field of battle against the United States military. You know. The very same people who’re locked up in Guantanamo Bay.
The hypocrisy of those who say “fuck them” to “mercenaries” and their relation to the “rules of war” while at the same time working themselves into a self-righteous lather over enemy combatants and their relation to the Geneva Conventions is utterly paralyzing. And quite revealing. A Qu’ran gets stepped on? Close down the “gulags!” A “merc” gets dismembered and his parts thrown over a bridge? Screw him.
Right?
And, for the record, Durbin’s comments were disgusting, over-the-top, and completely unwarranted. Indeed, Oliver Willis routinely employs such revolting rhetoric and just as routinely hides behind the laughable “But I’m not an elected official!” defense. And yet… I don’t see any reaction from him on this at all save a pathetic attempt to divert peoples’ attention toward an irrelevant attack on Dick Cheney.
What a hypocrite.
Fuck them mercenaries!! In fact, fuck anyone who kills in the name of god or cash!!
A nice note by Yglesias about those who twist and contort what Durbin said and proclaim he “aimed” his comments at American soldiers and that he was “over-the-top” and all the usual right wing noise.
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/06/index.html#006827
As usual, you cons distort and deflect. The subject is Cheney’s indignation about Sen. Durbins remarks. It’s pretty weak to defend yourself by saying you’re not as bad as Hitler and Pol Pot. That would make an interesting campaign slogan for Republicans in 2006, in fact “Vote GOP. STILL not as bad as Stalin.”
For the record, the Bush administration does with most torture what they do to every job- they outsource it. Rendition of “enemy combatents” to Egypt is where most of our torture is being done.
The subject of Cheney’s indignation is nothing more than a smokescreen by partisan Democrats who’re now marching in lockstep and circling the wagons around Durbin, claiming he has nothing whatsoever to apologize for. Cheney’s reaction might be hypocritical, but it really isn’t the story for anyone who isn’t so dishonest as to believe Durbin said nothing inappropriate.
Given the tedious bloviation that erupted when Santorum (was it?) mentioned the word “Nazi,” one would expect the same reaction in this case. One, however, is, as usual, disappointed. As usual, the old “right-wing noise machine” cliches get trotted out and the same old straw-men are erected.
Why is it so hard for people to believe that one can both find instances of abuse by the American military reprehensible as well as find Durbin’s comparisons to Nazi Germany, Khmer Cambodia, and Soviet Russia wildly inappropriate, nakedly partisan, and outright offensive? After all, these are the same people who routinely scold everyone else for claiming that it’s somehow impossible to support the troops and oppose the war at the same time.
I think it’s time for a little bit of consistency.
“these are the same people who routinely scold everyone else for claiming that it s somehow impossible to support the troops and oppose the war at the same time.”
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with that comment, but it sure doesn’t square with how I perceive what is going on. Who is claiming (scolding) that you can’t support the troops and oppose the war at the same time?
Getting back to the main point – torture. It was bad when nazi’s did it and it’s bad when Americans do it. That’s the point. And you seem to be caught up in the “it’s not as bad as ….” stuff that is in fact, the right wing noise machine’s response. Durbin’s comment was totally appropriate. If Americans had been subjected to such treatment there is no doubt you and others on the right would be screaming the very same thing he said and making the same comparisons. That was his point. The behavior documented by the FBI, would be something we would expect from the worst of humanity, not the best. Your bloviating about what the story really is is just so much disingenuous hot air. Again, the story is torture and an administration that seems quite comfortable with it. Do you really think Durbin’s remarks are more important than that? It would appear so. So you can keep keep your dishonest remarks to yourself. I think that comparison is more apt to those who seek to turn this into a “Durbin said this and he’s a bad man” story.